The Atheist and God

Originally posted by Halitose
Jesus submitted to the authority of the Father.

i am not trying to be dense, but i am not sure what you are saying. are you attempting to answer the question i posed?

Originally posted by LemonJello
i am not trying to be dense, but i am not sure what you are saying. are you attempting to answer the question i posed?

Sure. I was trying to answer you question. You see, good works alone are not going to get you into heaven. Jesus didn't only perform good deeds, he submitted to the Father. Its like you need both switches to be flipped for the light to shine. You need to accept Christ. However, faith without deeds is dead,

Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?

That is the essential difference I believe. Anybody could do some sort of good works. The Christians' is motivated by faith in Christ.

Originally posted by Halitose
Sure. I was trying to answer you question. You see, good works alone are not going to get you into heaven. Jesus didn't only perform good deeds, he submitted to the Father. Its like you need both switches to be flipped for the light to shine. You need to accept Christ. However, faith without deeds is dead,

Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, th ...[text shortened]... eve. Anybody could do some sort of good works. The Christians' is motivated by faith in Christ.

You need to accept Christ.

so i take it that you see faith as a necessary condition for salvation. so all the people in the world who have never heard of christ and have no idea what the bible is are automatically denied salvation? they are just fuel for the eternal fires? for no other reason than simple ignorance, god deems it necessary that they suffer for eternity? and i suppose that children who die before they reach religious maturity also make for good firewood? indeed, you are one of the select few; heaven may end up being pretty sparsely populated.

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]You need to accept Christ.

so i take it that you see faith as a necessary condition for salvation. so all the people in the world who have never heard of christ and have no idea what the bible is are automatically denied salvation? they are just fuel for the eternal fires? for no other reason than simple ignorance, god deems it necessary that ...[text shortened]... indeed, you are one of the select few; heaven may end up being pretty sparsely populated.[/b]

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

God can reveal Himself to anybody at any time.

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

I'm in no position to say who is going to heaven and who is condemned to hell. All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

Originally posted by Halitose
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

God can reveal Himself to anybody at any time.

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

I' ...[text shortened]... going to heaven and who is condemned to hell. All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

I'm in no position to say who is going to heaven and who is condemned to hell. All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

how convenient for you.

All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

doubtful. i would rather say that you may be assured of your own expectations of salvation. unfortunately, great expectation often leads to great disappointment.

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]I'm in no position to say who is going to heaven and who is condemned to hell. All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

how convenient for you.

All I can ever be assured of is my own salvation.

doubtful. i would rather say that you may be assured of your own expectations of salvation. unfortunately, great expectation often leads to great disappointment. [/b]

🙂

Originally posted by Halitose
🙂

well, at least you are happy in your cocoon of great expectation.

'if the sages ask thee why
this charm is wasted on the earth and sky,
tell them, dear, that if man's ego was made for placation,
then christianity is its own justification.'

--my own adaptation of Emerson...it sort of rhymes at the end.

Originally posted by LemonJello
well, at least you are happy in your cocoon of great expectation.

'if the sages ask thee why
this charm is wasted on the earth and sky,
tell them, dear, that if man's ego was made for placation,
then christianity is its own ...[text shortened]...

--my own adaptation of Emerson...it sort of rhymes at the end.

Don't knock all of Christianity because of certain views. The majority of Christians aren't OSAS.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Don't knock all of Christianity because of certain views. The majority of Christians aren't OSAS.

probably true. thank you for keeping me honest.

Originally posted by LemonJello
well, at least you are happy in your cocoon of great expectation.

'if the sages ask thee why
this charm is wasted on the earth and sky,
tell them, dear, that if man's ego was made for placation,
then christianity is its own ...[text shortened]...

--my own adaptation of Emerson...it sort of rhymes at the end.

well, at least you are happy in your cocoon of great expectation.

At least we are experiencing the 'metamorphosis' in the cocoon which gives us even greater expectation.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I wonder what he meant by "offend".

There must be degrees of damnation if suicide is preferable to child molestation from a hereafter perspective.

Was that where the idea of Purgatory came from?

In terms of Catholic teaching, there are, indeed, degrees of damnation.

Purgatory (as ivanhoe points out) is a different concept altogether. A soul in purgatory has been "saved" (to use that loaded term), but is not ready yet for Heaven. His/her soul needs to undergo a process of "purification".

"Damnation" (to use another loaded term) is a permanent state.

(I say 'loaded terms' because these terms have assumed much negative undertones in modern culture because they are often used in aggressive preaching.)

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Don't be a believer: be.
It's for free.

Can anyone 'not be'?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Can anyone 'not be'?

Well, yes. You can sit inertly on a couch and enjoy the comforts of passive existence as your mind and body rot. Being is an active state (or vibration if you like).

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose 🙂

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Well, yes. You can sit inertly on a couch and enjoy the comforts of passive existence as your mind and body rot. Being is an active state (or vibration if you like).

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose 🙂

And nothing don’t mean nothing honey if it ain’t free now.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Well, yes. You can sit inertly on a couch and enjoy the comforts of passive existence as your mind and body rot. Being is an active state (or vibration if you like).

But even if the person is inert, would he not still be aware of the world around him and of himself? Would he still not think? Does "being" imply "doing"?