1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    17 Sep '13 23:39
    "The atheist atheists love to hate"

    "Hobart Mauer, famed psychologist, who earned his doctorate degree from Johns Hopkins, for four years was instructor at Yale, for eight years taught at Harvard, and in 1954 became president of the American Psychological Association was also an avowed atheist, and ended his life by suicide.

    In 1960 he wrote an article entitled “Sin, the Lesser of Two Evils,” in The American Psychologist magazine. In it he said, “For several decades we psychologists have looked upon the whole matter of sin and moral accountability as a great incubus and we have acclaimed our freedom from it as epic making. But at length we have discovered to be free in this sense to have the excuse of being sick rather than being sinful is to also court the danger of becoming lost. In becoming amoral, ethically neutral and free, we have cut the very roots of our being, lost our deepest sense of selfhood and identity. And with neurotics themselves, asking, “Who am I? What is my deepest destiny? And what does living really mean?”

    His letter generated so much controversy that in a follow up article he clarified writing, “If we merely call it wrong-doing, we do not understand the gravity of what it is to violate some of these moral laws from which we are trying to break ourselves away." http://truthlab.wordpress.com/tag/hobart-mauer/

    "Mowrer had hoped to remain professionally active in retirement, but circumstances forced him to slow down shortly after he retired in 1975. Molly became seriously ill and he developed medical problems of his own. Molly's death in 1979 was a great loss, and also left him with few responsibilities. He had accepted that his periodic depressions would never be entirely cured, and had long held the opinion that suicide was a reasonable choice in some circumstances. He committed suicide in 1982 at the age of 75." (wiki)

    Comments?
  2. Joined
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    18 Sep '13 00:00
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"The atheist atheists love to hate"

    "Hobart Mauer, famed psychologist, who earned his doctorate degree from Johns Hopkins, for four years was instructor at Yale, for eight years taught at Harvard, and in 1954 became president of the American Psychological Association was also an avowed atheist, and ended his life by suicide.

    In 1960 he wrot ...[text shortened]... n some circumstances. He committed suicide in 1982 at the age of 75." (wiki)

    Comments?[/b]
    He seems to have found a practical purpose for religion.
  3. Joined
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    18 Sep '13 00:281 edit
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    He seems to have found a practical purpose for religion.
    The death of God resulted in the disintegration of the shrine at which people had come to worship their morality, or more accurately, worship the imagined Author of their morality. Religion was a sea anchor. We are cast adrift. Moral authority seeks a new basis for those whose God is dead. I see no reason to hate this person. He spoke truth.

    My only point of concern is with "we do not understand the gravity of what it is to violate some of these moral laws from which we are trying to break ourselves away" because I don't equate atheism with a desire to break away from moral laws. Nor did he. I think he was saying what I say above.
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    18 Sep '13 00:32
    I do not think psychology nor atheists believe that there is no moral accountability. Theists seem to believe that not believing in an omnicient, omnipotent higher being who has set forth moral laws means one is amoral. This is not true. In fact, if theists are only moral due to their fear of God, I would suggest they are indeed quite immoral and without a true love or respect for other humans and all life forms....
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    18 Sep '13 01:36
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"The atheist atheists love to hate"

    "Hobart Mauer, famed psychologist, who earned his doctorate degree from Johns Hopkins, for four years was instructor at Yale, for eight years taught at Harvard, and in 1954 became president of the American Psychological Association was also an avowed atheist, and ended his life by suicide.

    In 1960 he wrot ...[text shortened]... n some circumstances. He committed suicide in 1982 at the age of 75." (wiki)

    Comments?[/b]
    I doubt you'll find many atheists who have even heard of Hobart Mowrer, let alone any who "hate" him.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    18 Sep '13 03:171 edit
    Originally posted by Phranny

    I do not think psychology nor atheists believe that there is no moral accountability. Theists seem to believe that not believing in an omnicient, omnipotent higher being who has set forth moral laws means one is amoral. This is not true. In fact, if theists are only moral due to their fear of God, I would suggest they are indeed quite immoral and without a true love or respect for other humans and all life forms....
    Well said, Phranny. Morality, by design, protects the human race from itself to insure its perpetuation. Norms and Standards, Codes of Conduct and Laws within civilized countries evolve from its collective conscience, ethics and values. Rightly understood, The Ten Commandments are in fact a Freedom Code given to safeguard Israel's survival. Constitution of The United States of America was written to accomplish the same objective. RHP Spirituality Forum's format for conversation could be simplified to "Dr. Ravi Zacharias' four questions in life. There are four questions in life for all of us:

    1. Origin: Where do I come from?

    2. Meaning: What gives life meaning?

    3. Morality: How do I differentiate between good and bad?

    4. Destiny: What happens to a human being when he or she dies?"

    http://paxexsistovos.blogspot.com/2013/06/dr-ravi-zacharias-and-four-questions-in.html

    Thanks for your thoughtful contribution.
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    18 Sep '13 03:33
    Originally posted by JS357
    The death of God resulted in the disintegration of the shrine at which people had come to worship their morality, or more accurately, worship the imagined Author of their morality. Religion was a sea anchor. We are cast adrift. Moral authority seeks a new basis for those whose God is dead. I see no reason to hate this person. He spoke truth.

    My only point o ...[text shortened]... h a desire to break away from moral laws. Nor did he. I think he was saying what I say above.
    I doubt that atheists would have us disregard the golden rule, as it is important for society as a whole. Not a lot of thought has to be given to it.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    18 Sep '13 04:49
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Well said, Phranny. Morality, by design, protects the human race from itself to insure its perpetuation. Norms and Standards, Codes of Conduct and Laws within civilized countries evolve from its collective conscience, ethics and values. Rightly understood, The Ten Commandments are in fact a Freedom Code given to safeguard Israel's survival. Constitution ...[text shortened]... 06/dr-ravi-zacharias-and-four-questions-in.html

    Thanks for your thoughtful contribution.
    When you use the word "evolve" here, you must mean more than just a change over time, don't you? Don't you mean a change for the better? Don't we desire a society that has higher moral values than those before us? Isn't this kind of change what the word "evolve" should mean?

    The Instructor
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    18 Sep '13 05:021 edit
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    I doubt that atheists would have us disregard the golden rule, as it is important for society as a whole. Not a lot of thought has to be given to it.
    The GR can be corrupted by those who would save your soul at the expense of your torture, while saying that is what they would have you do to them. It has happened. There is no easy way.
  10. Cape Town
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    18 Sep '13 05:24
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"The atheist atheists love to hate"

    "Hobart Mauer, ......[/b]
    When I entered the thread I was expecting someone like Pol Pot. Instead you introduce me to someone I have never heard of, and even after reading your post feel no hatred nor even dislike for whatsoever. What made you think atheists love to hate him?
  11. Cape Town
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    18 Sep '13 05:311 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Rightly understood, The Ten Commandments are in fact a Freedom Code given to safeguard Israel's survival.
    Its funny how many people make pronouncements about the 10 commandments but don't actually know what they are. I suggest you go are read them and then repeat the above statement and see if you can do it with a straight face.

    RHP Spirituality Forum's format for conversation could be simplified to "Dr. Ravi Zacharias' four questions in life. There are four questions in life for all of us:
    1. Origin: Where do I come from?
    2. Meaning: What gives life meaning?
    3. Morality: How do I differentiate between good and bad?
    4. Destiny: What happens to a human being when he or she dies?"

    I don't think any of the four come very high on my list of questions for this forum.
    Which ones do you have difficulty with as I may be able to answer them for you.
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    18 Sep '13 08:30
    Do you think that atheists are more amoral than theists, GB?
  13. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    18 Sep '13 09:35
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    When you use the word "evolve" here, you must mean more than just a change over time, don't you? Don't you mean a change for the better? Don't we desire a society that has higher moral values than those before us? Isn't this kind of change what the word "evolve" should mean?

    The Instructor
    "When you use the word "evolve" here, you must mean more than just a change over time, don't you? Don't you mean a change for the better?"... Both to evolve to something better or devolve into something lesser or lower; adherence to and enforcement of our constitution have weakened over time. Changes have been legislated to weaken its provisions.

    "Don't we desire a society that has higher moral values than those before us? Isn't this kind of change what the word "evolve" should mean?"... Previous generations understood that the Four Divine Institutions provide the core of morality: Human Volition (Free Will); Marriage; Family; Nationalism. Today we've become arrogant in rejecting them at our peril.
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    18 Sep '13 09:40
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    When I entered the thread I was expecting someone like Pol Pot. Instead you introduce me to someone I have never heard of, and even after reading your post feel no hatred nor even dislike for whatsoever. What made you think atheists love to hate him?
    Article caught my eye; thought you might enjoy it and hoped you would tell me whether the title was rhetorical or factual.
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    18 Sep '13 09:41
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Its funny how many people make pronouncements about the 10 commandments but don't actually know what they are. I suggest you go are read them and then repeat the above statement and see if you can do it with a straight face.

    [b]RHP Spirituality Forum's format for conversation could be simplified to "Dr. Ravi Zacharias' four questions in life. There are ...[text shortened]... is forum.
    Which ones do you have difficulty with as I may be able to answer them for you.
    As always I respect your right to form and express an opinion.
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