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Originally posted by @romans1009Seems like he is trying to condense the gospel into one chapter if not a couple of verses. Sad.
You can’t look at a single verse or even a passage of several verses in isolation and then assign a meaning to them beyond what is plainly stated.
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Did Paul say that the church was built upon Paul?
No. He said the unique foundation of the Christian church is Christ. And no other foundation can anyone lay accept Christ (First Cor. 3:10,11).
You have to realize that the reason for ThinkOfOne's opposition against Paul is not because of Paul but because of the foundation of the church, Christ.
it is Christ as the foundation of the Christian church that ThinkOfOne opposes. He won't ever admit this. He will only present "another Jesus" (Second Cor. 11:4) instead.
This "another Jesus" did not lay down His life as a ransom to save sinners from the curse of the law. But even more in error, this "another Jesus" to ThinkOfOne is:
1.) Not God incarnate
2.) Not resurrected
3.) Not available
4.) Not possible to know, enjoy, and experience
5.) Not able to live in people as "the Spirit of reality".
6.) Not building a collective "temple" of God indwelling people.
7.) Not coming again in glory to be King.
8.) Not the man who will conduct the judgments of God for the living and the dead.
9.) Not the eternal life.
You must remember that ThinkOfOne's warfare is not directly against Paul. It is against Christ disguised as a complaint with Paul.
Some statements he make have some truth in them.
The best way to propagate a lie is for the propaganda to contain some small amount of truth.
There is much degradation of religion in Christianity.
He hopes that fact will allow him to teach his antichrist "another Jesus" of his modernistic humanism.
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Originally posted by @dj2beckerI advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. That's hardly "one chapter" or "a couple of verses". Both of you have been around long enough to know this, yet you deceitfully try to depict my position as something less than that.
Seems like he is trying to condense the gospel into one chapter if not a couple of verses. Sad.
Even if you hadn't been around that long, in the very post in question I cited verses from three different books: Matthew. Luke and John. From that alone it is clear that it isn't as you're trying to depict. Clearly you both stoop to deceit since you are unable to formulate a cogent argument in response.
BTW, interesting that "becker" is posting in the manner of Donald Trump as "Romans" so often does. You seem to have forgotten yourself again.
Originally posted by @sonshipI advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
Did Paul say that the church was built upon Paul?
No. He said the unique foundation of the Christian church is Christ. And no other foundation can anyone lay accept Christ [b](First Cor. 3:10,11).
You have to realize that the reason for ThinkOfOne's opposition against Paul is not because of Paul but because of the foundation of the church, Chri ...[text shortened]... fact will allow him to teach his antichrist [b]"another Jesus" of his modernistic humanism.[/b]
You advocate for a very different gospel.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI’ve already shown how your interpretation goes against so much of the New Testament. Just read back a few posts.
Unless you point out exactly all the places where you think I did that in my post about Matthew 20:26-28, then you've only succeeding in making yet another vacuous claim.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerHe’s ignoring everything in the New Testament that doesn’t fit his false doctrines of “salvation by works” and “Jesus was only a man.”
Seems like he is trying to condense the gospel into one chapter if not a couple of verses. Sad.
And that’s a lot to ignore.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou ignore a great deal of the New Testament that contradicts your false doctrines. That’s just a fact.
I advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. That's hardly "one chapter" or "a couple of verses". Both of you have been around long enough to know this, yet you deceitfully try to depict my position as something less than that.
Even if you hadn't been around that long, in the very post in question I cited verses from three differen ...[text shortened]... the manner of Donald Trump as "Romans" so often does. You seem to have forgotten yourself again.
Sad!
Originally posted by @romans1009What's "sad" is the dishonesty and deceitfulness that you routinely display on this forum.
You ignore a great deal of the New Testament that contradicts your false doctrines. That’s just a fact.
Sad!
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou are a victim of obsession.
I advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. ...
There is a book called Spiritual Reality Or Obsession by Watchman Nee. It was translated and published a second time under a series title.
Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 2) Vol. 36: Central Messages
by Watchman Nee
Here is a portion. And you should prayerfully read the whole short book. [my bolding]
WHAT IS
OBSESSION
?
Obsession is self-deception. An obsessed person is like the person described in 1 John 1:8. An obsessed person deceives himself. If a man knows that he has sinned, yet tells others that he has not sinned, this is a lie. But if a man has sinned, yet believes that he has not sinned, this is self-deception. Lying is knowing that one has sinned but telling others that he has not sinned. Being obsessed is having clearly sinned yet, at the same time, thinking that one is as wonderful and as sinless as the Lord Jesus, even to the point that he believes and says that he has no sin. Lying is knowing that one has sinned and trying to deceive others. Being obsessed is believing that one has no sin and telling others that he has no sin, when he has really sinned. In other words, lying is deceiving others, while being obsessed is deceiving oneself. The content of lying and obsession are the same; there is sin in both cases. But in one case, a man's conscience knows that he has sinned, yet he deceives others by saying that he has not sinned. In the other case, a man's mind tells him that he has not sinned, and in his heart he also believes that he has not sinned. Those who deceive others are lying, while those who deceive themselves are obsessed. All obsessed persons are self-deceiving persons. All obsessed persons spend so much time considering themselves that they fall into obsession. Many proud people have become obsessed because they not only try to make others believe that they are a certain kind of person, but they themselves believe that they are that kind of person!
Paul was once obsessed. When Stephen was being stoned to death, Paul "approved of his killing" (Acts 8:1). He was obsessed within. When he wrote to the church in Philippi, he mentioned his former condition: "As to zeal, persecuting the church" (Phil. 3:6). He thought that he had to persecute the church in order to serve God with zeal. When men suffered harm, his heart rejoiced. But, according to his consideration, this was not enough. He "went to the high priest and asked for letters from him to Damascus for the synagogues, so that if he found any who were of the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem" (Acts 9:1-2). He believed that by doing this, he was serving God with zeal. But was this right? His desire to serve God was right. But it was wrong for him to persecute the church and think that by doing so, he was serving God. He was wrong, yet he believed that he was right. This is obsession.
In John 16:2 the Lord Jesus describes some people who are obsessed. He says, "They will put you out of the synagogues; but an hour is coming for every one who kills you to think that he is offering service to God." To think that one is serving God by killing the Lord's disciples is to fall into obsession.
Obsession is a matter of the heart. It is doing the wrong thing yet saying in the heart that it is right. If a man does something wrong, yet stubbornly says with his mouth that it is right, this is lying. But if a man does something wrong, and not only says with his mouth but even believes in his heart that it is right, this is obsession. Lying is being stubborn outside and being shriveled inside. In this case, the more confident one is outwardly, the more timid he is inwardly. But obsession is being stubborn both outwardly and inwardly. It is being confident both outwardly and inwardly to the extent that even the conscience seems to justify the act.
The symptom of obsession is thinking and believing that a wrong thing is right to the point that one cannot say that it is wrong. This is being obsessed. There are those who imagine that something is happening with others when nothing actually is happening. The imagination goes so far that they become convinced of a certain matter, and they even come up with proofs and evidences to support their imagination. This also is obsession. Some Christians want to do something or desire to achieve certain goals. In the beginning they have some feeling that what they want to do may not be right. But later, as their thoughts are set in that direction, the more they think about it, the more they feel that it is right, and the more real and true the things become. In the end, they believe that it is absolutely right. They consider it to be the truth, and they tell others that it is the truth. This also is obsession. One can be so obsessed that when others use God's Word and prove to him that he is wrong, he will still not take heed. It is not easy to help or correct an obsessed Christian, because he believes that his conscience says he is right.
Copied from
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=1A06C251F7
Originally posted by @sonshipC'mon jaywill. Just admit that you are unable to logically refute what I've been posting. Presumably if you could, you would. Instead it's just one ad hom after another.
You are a victim of [b]obsession.
There is a book called Spirituality Or Obsession by Watchman Nee. It was translated and published a second time under a series title.
Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 2) Vol. 36: Central Messages
by Watchman Nee
Here is a portion. And you should prayerfully read the whole short book. ...[text shortened]... ght. [/quote]
Copied from
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=1A06C251F7[/b]
BTW, how is your RHP subscription working out for you?
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneI think you are an obsessed man who is self deceived.
I can't think of an argument you have made that I was not able to refute. Why should I admit something that didn't take place, just because you long for me to admit it? This is obsession.
Does talking about RHP subscriptions somehow strengthened your erroneous concept? If that is the best you have, that's pretty weak.
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Originally posted by @sonshipI can't think of an argument you have made that I was not able to refute. Why should I admit something you just long for me to admit?
I think you are an obsessed man who is self deceived.
I can't think of an argument you have made that I was not able to refute. Why should I admit something that didn't take place, just because you long for me to admit it? This is obsession.
Does talking about RHP subscriptions somehow strengthened your erroneous concept? If that is the best you have, that's pretty weak.
Logically refute what I wrote about Matthew 20:26-28 on this thread. The key word there is "logically".
Does talking about RHP subscriptions somehow strengthened your erroneous concept? If that is the best you have, that's pretty weak.
Why would it? It doesn't make any sense that that was the point.
In case you don't know, "BTW" means "by the way".
I was just curious as to how your RHP subscription is working out for you. Some people seem to believe that you are unappreciative of it. I defended you and said that it was likely that you were unaware of it.
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Originally posted by @thinkofone
Logically refute what I wrote about Matthew 20:26-28 on this thread. The key word there is "logically".
Matthew 20:26-28 ?
"It shall not be so among you, but whoever wants to become great among you shall be your servant,
And whoever wants to be first among you shall be your slave,
Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serva and to give His life as a ransom for many."
I already quite logically dealt with your appeal to this passage.
Christ teaching that we should follow His example is not Christ DENYING that He came to be a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.
That the believers should be willing to also lay down their soul lives in denial of the self in order to serve men as Jesus Christ in NO CONCEIVABLE WAY ... means He did not shed His blood for the forgiveness of many according to the new covenant in His blood.
YOU have created a FALSE DICHOTOMY.
IE. "Because Jesus sets forth an example for us to follow, THEREFORE, there is nothing that He did that we cannot ALSO do."
His work of redemption is absolutely unique in all time and in all history. We have no part in doing that work.
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But in living for God and serving others, of course the disciples have a part. That is if they live by Him in them just as He lived by the Father in Him.
"As the living Father has sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)
YOUR false dichotomy is that SINCE He went before us as a model and example, logically there is no work that He could do that we cannot also do.
Your logic is wrong. There is that which ONLY the Son of God could accomplish even though He teaches us to follow His example of service.
Now, you may think I was only interested in ad homs.
No, I think you should, as I said, prayerfully read that book on Spiritual Reality Or Obsession.
You are self deceived in thinking that the Gospel preached by Jesus is the same "gospel" you are teaching.
This is self-delusion. This is your "obsession".