The Believer and Gahenna

Originally posted by @suzianne
Because naturally everything, everything in this entire forum, is about you. This is how you always act, and that's why you often rebut people. You think that they think everything is about you, too.

He was trying to be tactful and speak to someone who already interrupted him without calling him by name, but you and your grand narcissism thought that ...[text shortened]... or not, not everyone has thoughts of you foremost in their head whenever they speak, unlike you.

Kick his ass Suzianne. 🙂

Originally posted by @js357
“Discuss.”

This means to Christians here, if they shake another Christian’s budding faith, they had dam well better make sure they are right to do so. Otherwise, leave it to someone else to stumble them.

Otherwise, leave it to someone else to stumble them.

What kind of twisted irony is this suppose to be ?

Originally posted by @sonship

Otherwise, leave it to someone else to stumble them.

What kind of twisted irony is this suppose to be ?

It seems that comments may not be understood unless other threads are read. This is a little confusing for me.

Originally posted by @chaney3
Kick his ass Suzianne. 🙂

She really gets upset with me doesn’t she; although less so when FMF is here to absorb the worst of her wrath.

Originally posted by @sonship

Otherwise, leave it to someone else to stumble them.

What kind of twisted irony is this suppose to be ?

I sense confusion.

The warning doesn’t apply to me since I’m a nonC, but I am in a damnable state already, so my opinions are dismissible based on that basis alone.

Glad to be of help.

Originally posted by @sonship
After reading this thread the MYTH that I am a Christian tolerant or lenient towards sin just because I believe in the assurance of eternal redemption and the gift of eternal life will be exploded.

Many of you may know that my position on the assurance of salvation (which some refer to as OSAS) I have defended. Permissive and lenient towards a life of s ...[text shortened]... can be incredible and biblical about the SERIOUSNESS of Christ towards the tolerance of sinning.

You can have full assurance of salvation and still not believe in OSAS. Being saved is just
having God in our lives now, not waiting it to hear the words enter on judgment day. Yet
it is a daily walking with the Lord, and scripture is full of warnings about turning away, or
walking in the flesh. Following the Holy Spirit we can be partakers of God's divine nature
all of this in this life, not just in the one to come. Walking with God we can be sure we are
His people, it isn't a I'm saved so now I can sin for free now and not worry about it He has
to accept me, but if we are walking with Him and stumble we can go to Him for forgiveness.

2 Peter
3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by @js357
I sense confusion.

The warning doesn’t apply to me since I’m a nonC, but I am in a damnable state already, so my opinions are dismissible based on that basis alone.

Glad to be of help.

I don't think I said yet that you helped.
No offense. I was not quite sure what was meant there.

No offense taken. Good day to you.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You can have full assurance of salvation and still not believe in OSAS. Being saved is just
having God in our lives now, not waiting it to hear the words enter on judgment day.

I appreciate your post. I am glad that your spirit differs from that of Rajk999 on this.

This is a very good contribution IMO.

2 Peter
3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness,

It is up to "His divine power". Our self effort alone will never make it.

All things have been granted to the believer. Not some, but "all things" that pertain to living the divine "life" and expressing "godliness"{/b] which is God manifest in the flesh [b] (1 Tim. 3:15).

through the knowledge of him

We have to get to " know Him," We have to come into a subjective and intimate knowledge of the Person of the Christ and God.

who called us to his own glory and excellence,

Called us to "His own glory and virtue [excellence)". What a high calling. A calling to be conformed to the image of His Son, the Firstborn Son Rom. 8:28.

No wonder He has to grant to us all things through His power. No wonder it will take up all the way to being conformed to the image of the Son.

4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature,

Amen. His divine power, His divine nature will do the work. We believe and cooperate by letting Christ make His home in our hearts through faith - Some, some more, as much as we can, all the way.

We become "partakers" . That is partakers of the divine nature.

You can see why we have to speak, proclaim, and stand often on the exceedingly precious promises. We have to go against the current of the age which dismisses all this in unbelief. We have to make mention of the promises in thanksgiving and praise, and in the midst of the challenges.

I'm sorry that this is scoffed at as "mouth worship" or just some vain action-less self proclamation.

having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

I always considered Peter rather unique in the way he links past forgiveness with ever present overcoming. We were forgiven and empowered simultaneously seems to be Peter's thought.

I appreciate this very much.

10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by @js357
No offense taken. Good day to you.

Thankyou. Same to you.
I am presently looking over some remarks.

Originally posted by @sonship
I appreciate your post. I am glad that your spirit differs from that of Rajk999 on this.

This is a very good contribution IMO.

[b] 2 Peter
3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness,

It is up to "His divine power". Our self effort alone will never make it.

All things[/ ...[text shortened]... for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. [/quote][/b]

The issue as I see it is OSAS takes away living a righteous holy life following the Lord, it
does suggest we have a get out of jail free card no matter what we do, or why, or where
our hearts are. This would mean a once converted child rapist could continue fulfilling his
evil desires in the complete full assurance of salvation, and the victims of his actions
would also be in the kingdom of God with an unrepentant sinner who abused them.

There are to many warnings in scripture about falling away!

I think the thing most confusing about this doctrine is that those that are following the Lord
are saved, and are going to be saved. That is because of the Father sending us His Son,
the Son becoming sin for us so we could be forgiven and sending us the Holy Spirit, the
Holy Spirit who is to dwell in us, teaching us, leading us, helping us in our sanctification
doing the works God had prepared for us to do. If we only look at this and assume God
will put up with us in a life time of unrepentant sin, we fool and delude ourselves.

Remember some of the things Jesus said, there are warnings for falling away which
can only mean falling away is possible if our hearts turned from God into being unfaithful.

Matthew 24:48-50 English Standard Version (ESV)

41 Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” 42 And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You can have full assurance of salvation and still not believe in OSAS. Being saved is just
having God in our lives now, not waiting it to hear the words enter on judgment day. Yet
it is a daily walking with the Lord, and scripture is full of warnings about turning away, or
walking in the flesh. Following the Holy Spirit we can be partakers of God's div ...[text shortened]... ichly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Of course you can. I already pointed out many times that there are some with that assurance from Jesus Christ. But the claim that all Christians have this assurance is just plain garbage. The teachings of Christ and Paul condemn this doctrine.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Of course you can. I already pointed out many times that there are some with that assurance from Jesus Christ. But the claim that all Christians have this assurance is just plain garbage. The teachings of Christ and Paul condemn this doctrine.

Its a lie, and one of the main reasons that people are going to hear "depart from me",
even though they used to say, "Lord, Lord" when referring to Jesus. I've told you over
and over that only those following the Holy Spirit I call Christians. If they are claiming the
name that does not mean they are following God in this life. You seem to think that just
anyone can get into the Kingdom of God regardless of their standing with Jesus Christ
which is also a lie, since if anyone deny Jesus, Jesus will deny them.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Its a lie, and one of the main reasons that people are going to hear "depart from me",
even though they used to say, "Lord, Lord" when referring to Jesus. I've told you over
and over that only those following the Holy Spirit I call Christians. If they are claiming the
name that does not mean they are following God in this life. You seem to think that ju ...[text shortened]... anding with Jesus Christ
which is also a lie, since if anyone deny Jesus, Jesus will deny them.

You continually take it upon yourself to decide for Jesus, who will enter the Kingdom of God and that is the bottom line. Who is accepted and who is rejected. Holy Spirit is no guarantee, Proclaiming faith is no guarantee.

Jesus said this about who will enter:

.. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,
Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom
prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick, and ye visited me:
I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Matthew 25:31-36 KJV)

All others are rejected.

Deal with that.

I'll let KellyJay and Rajk999 discuss their issue with each other if they want. Since I believe that EVERY and ALL believers have that right to know that the assurance of eternal life is theirs, that is not my fight.

My fight is this:

Eternal life is assured.
Reward in the coming thousand year kingdom is not yet.

Discipline and correction from the Father to His sons is also assured.
That all discipline and correction is assured in the church age, is emphatically not the case.

I am assured the Father will work to perfect me.
I am not assured that it will always and only be in the age of grace.