22 Nov 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerYou clearly do not understand or do not wish to understand what the words Science and Scientific mean. The scientific method has been so successful that many people accept as fact anything that is claimed to be science. As a result supporters of Creationism which is a belief, would like to get it labeled as science (Intelligent Design) and would like to change the meaning of the word science so that it does not cover anything that contradicts thier personal beliefs.
A point that must be realised is that the big bang theory is not scientific. Science, as Mendeleev, Mach and Einstein pointed out, deals with what can be measured, everything else is speculation. Recorded human history goes back approximately five thousand years. No scientist can go back in time to take measurements of what happened before that, so when sc ...[text shortened]... speculation. The current fashionable speculation on origins is known as the "Big Bang Theory".
Religion by definition is not scientific and should not try to be. A miracle is either a violation of the laws of physics or a violation of probability. Otherwise we could just call it a coincidence.
Science is not a religion and nobody should have blind faith in everything a scientist says. Scientists make mistakes, speculate about a lot of things, and sometimes draw conclusions based on thier personal beliefs or for other reasons such as funding requirements. However much of our lives still depends on science and its theories and predictions and although I have never been all the way round I do believe that the earth is a sphere and laugh at anyone who thinks it is flat just because the Bible says so.
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22 Nov 05
Originally posted by twhiteheadI do believe that the earth is a sphere and laugh at anyone who thinks it is flat just because the Bible says so.
You clearly do not understand or do not wish to understand what the words Science and Scientific mean. The scientific method has been so successful that many people accept as fact anything that is claimed to be science. As a result supporters of Creationism which is a belief, would like to get it labeled as science (Intelligent Design) and would like to c ...[text shortened]... the earth is a sphere and laugh at anyone who thinks it is flat just because the Bible says so.
Where does the bible say this? Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. [DD]
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. [DD]
A literal translation of Job 26:10 is "He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end." A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22 - "the circle of the earth."
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]
The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]
Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]
The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]
The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, "In that day," then in verse 34, "In that night." This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]
"When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html
22 Nov 05
Originally posted by dj2beckerOK so the Bible does not say that the earth is Flat. However for a long time the Catholic Church suppressed science because they believed that it conflicted with their beliefs and a flat earth was one of those beliefs.
"When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate."
Your comment "When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate." perfectly illustrates my main argument in my post in that the desire to proove the Bible scientifically accurate results in a distortion of what science really is. Scientific theories such as the age of the earth and the Universe and evolution which appear to contradict the Bible (to some people) are discarded not because of thier scientific method but because of thier apparent contradiction with the Bible.
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22 Nov 05
Originally posted by twhiteheadScience is the pursuit of knowledge about the material world around us. It was realised more that 400 years ago that human reason alone is inadiquate to ensure accurate conclusions in this field. This realisation led to the development of the "Scientific Method".
OK so the Bible does not say that the earth is Flat. However for a long time the Catholic Church suppressed science because they believed that it conflicted with their beliefs and a flat earth was one of those beliefs.
Your comment [b]"When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate." perfectly illustrates my main argument ...[text shortened]... t because of thier scientific method but because of thier apparent contradiction with the Bible.[/b]
The first stage of the method consists of making observations and measurements.
The second stage consists of studying the patterns suggested by the obsevations.
The third stage involves proposing hypothesis to explain the observed patterns.
The fouth stage entails predicting the outcome of the proposed, but as yet unperformed, experiments on the assumption that a hypothesis describes a general truth.
The fith stage consists of performing such critical experiments in order to test the predictions made by the hypotheses.
If the predictions are confirmed, then confidence is ascribed to a hypothesis.
If sufficient experimental varification suggests that a hypothesis is universally valid, it is given the status of a scientific theory. If at any stage experimental results contradict the predictions of a hypothesis or theory it must be modified or abandoned as invalid.
By its nature the scientific method is limited in the range of phenomena which are open to examination. Any field not open to the direct experimental testing cannot be considered in any way "science".
Furthermore, extrapolation far beyond the range of the actual range of actual experiment, especially into the distant past or distant future is unscientific.
22 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadHowever for a long time the Catholic Church suppressed science because they believed that it conflicted with their beliefs and a flat earth was one of those beliefs.
OK so the Bible does not say that the earth is Flat. However for a long time the Catholic Church suppressed science because they believed that it conflicted with their beliefs and a flat earth was one of those beliefs.
Your comment [b]"When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate." perfectly illustrates my main argument ...[text shortened]... t because of thier scientific method but because of thier apparent contradiction with the Bible.[/b]
This is patent nonsense (about flat earth being one of the Church's "beliefs" ). The idea that the earth was spherical was well established in Christian thought before the end of the first millennium.