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30 Jul 07
Originally posted by jaywillOf course, God gave Him all authority in heaven and on earth. The whole of mankind is in His hands....God empowered Him, and it pleases the Father to make it so.
Did you see that ??? Christ is the Author of salvation leading many many sons of God into the divine expression of God - glory. Glory here is God expressed. When God is expressed that is ...Glory.[/b]
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30 Jul 07
Originally posted by jaywillIf you read my post, and look at the website I referred to, you have a lot of explaining to do.
How? First you believe [b]into Him.
When you believe into Him you receive the divine birth. That divine birth makes you like Him. He is God / man. When you are born again you also are God / man.
That is the beginning.
You are not God as an object of worship.
Nor are you omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent.
Nor are you a Creator of un ...[text shortened]... Bible told us that the believers are "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4)[/b]
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by checkbaiterI did not look at the website you linked to.
If you read my post, and look at the website I referred to, you have a lot of explaining to do.
Of course with short posts like this there is always more explaining that could be done.
What is it specifically that you want me to explain?
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30 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillI understand that after I received Jesus Christ as Lord I also received the divine nature. But this does not make Jesus God. It simply means I am made like Jesus. And that is because of holy spirit. If you read my post, if you looked at the website I refer to, you have a lot of explaining to do...
How? First you believe [b]into Him.
When you believe into Him you receive the divine birth. That divine birth makes you like Him. He is God / man. When you are born again you also are God / man.
That is the beginning.
You are not God as an object of worship.
Nor are you omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent.
Nor are you a Creator of un Bible told us that the believers are "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4)[/b]
sorry, double post...
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30 Jul 07
Originally posted by jaywillThe website lists every verse that trinitarians use to support the trinity. Probably many you never heard of....
I did not look at the website you linked to.
Of course with short posts like this there is always more explaining that could be done.
What is it specifically that you want me to explain?
30 Jul 07
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Of course, God gave Him all authority in heaven and on earth. The whole of mankind is in His hands....God empowered Him, and it pleases the Father to make it so.
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That is right. And Ephesians says that He is made the head over all things "to the church" His body.
"And He subjected all things under His feet and gave Him to be the Head over all things to the church, which is His Body, the fullness of the One who fills all in all." (Eph. 1:22,23)
The phrase "to the church" indicates a kind of transmission. It means that Christ is made Head over all things and transmits this authority from Himself as the Head down through His Body the church.
He is not just the Head FOR the church. He is the Head TO the church. And the church is the dwelling place of God in spirit. As God dwelt in the man Jesus so the church is under the process of God's dispensation that she may be the dwelling place of God in spirit:
"In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; In whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit" (Eph. 2:21,22)
So His Body which is the fullness of the One who fills all in all receives the transmitted authority of Christ over all things. And His Body receives the impartation of God's divine life until she becomes the dwelling place of God in spirit.
It is all biblical you see?
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneySo I must know Mohammad to know God? Should John 17:3 read, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee; the only true God, and Mohammad, whom thou has sent."?
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All the prophets said that. Prophet Mohammed said that, but of course you don't know him. That is why you don't know GOD.
30 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiterJesus Christ is indeed God. But He is not the "raw" God. He is the God Who has been "cooked" and "prepared" to be eaten and received by man.
I understand that after I received Jesus Christ as Lord I also received the divine nature. But this does not make Jesus God. It simply means I am made like Jesus. And that is because of holy spirit. If you read my post, if you looked at the website I refer to, you have a lot of explaining to do...
sorry, double post...
God today is no longer RAW God with only divinity. God today is the God Who has passed through a process of two becommings.
1.) The Word BECAME flesh - (John 1:14).
2.) The last Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit - (1 Cor. 15:45).
These two BECAMEs indicate that God has passed through a kind of preparation. The God Who was the raw God has passed through the process of
incarnation,
human living,
death,
resurrection,
ascension,
impartation into man as life
This has made the "raw" God the "cooked" God (so to speak).
This has made the "raw" God the Processed God Who has passed through becomming flesh in incarnation and becoming life giving Spirit for the dispensing of the Triune God into man.
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30 Jul 07
Originally posted by jaywillYou get all this from those verses? Please forgive the C & P, but I know no other way unless you want to peruse the site..
Jesus Christ is indeed God. But He is not the "raw" God. He is the God Who has been "cooked" and "prepared" to be eaten and received by man.
God today is no longer RAW God with only divinity. God today is the God Who has passed through a process of two becommings.
1.) The Word BECAME flesh - [b](John 1:14).
2.) The last Adam BECAME a life ...[text shortened]... ation and becoming life giving Spirit for the dispensing of the Triune God into man.[/b]
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=109
John 1:14a
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (NIV)
1. The “Word” is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God (see John 1:1) and the Word “became flesh” as Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus Christ was “the Word in the flesh,” which is shortened to “the Word” for ease of speaking. Scripture is also the Word, but it is the Word in writing. Everyone agrees that the “Word” in writing had a beginning. So did the “Word” in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: “Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner.” Some ancient scribes were so uncomfortable with the idea of Jesus having a “beginning” that they tried to alter the Greek text to read “birth” and not “beginning,” but they were unsuccessful. The modern Greek texts all read “beginning” (genesis) in Matthew 1:18. “Birth” is considered an acceptable translation of “genesis,” since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read “birth” in Matthew 1:18. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the “beginning” (genesis) of Jesus Christ.
In the beginning, God had a plan, a purpose, which “became flesh” when Jesus was conceived. To make John 1:14 support the Trinity, there must first be proof that Jesus existed before he was born and was called “the Word.” We do not believe that such proof exists. There is a large body of evidence, however, that Jesus was foreknown by God, and that the “the Word” refers to God’s plan or purpose. We contend that the meaning of the verse is straightforward. God had a plan (the Word) and that plan became flesh when Jesus was conceived. Thus, Jesus became “the Word in the flesh.”
2. It is quite fair to ask why John would say, “the Word became flesh,” a statement that seems so obvious to us. Of course Jesus Christ was flesh. He was born, grew, ate and slept, and Scripture calls him a man. However, what is clear to us now was not at all clear in the early centuries of the Christian era. In our notes on John 1:1, we explain that the Bible must be understood in the context of the culture in which it was written. At the time of John’s writing, the “Docetic” movement was gaining disciples inside Christianity (“Docetic” comes from the Greek word for “to seem” or “to appear&rdquo😉. Docetic Christians believed Jesus was actually a spirit being, or god, who only “appeared” to be human. Some Docetists did not believe Jesus even actually ate or drank, but only pretended to do so. Furthermore, some Jews thought that Jesus was an angel. In theological literature, theologians today call this “angel-Christology.” John 1:14 was not written to show that Jesus was somehow pre-existent and then became flesh. It was to show that God’s plan for salvation “became flesh,” i.e., Jesus was not a spirit, god or angelic being, but rather a flesh-and-blood man. A very similar thing is said in 1 John 4:2, that if you do not believe Jesus has come in the flesh, you are not of God.
Hyndman, p. 113
Racovian Catechism, pp. 117-119
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyJohn 10:25 "Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you believed me not. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life; and they will never perish, neither will any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand. I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE. Then the Jews took up stones against him to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father, for which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered him saying, For good works we do not stone you, but for blasphemy, and because that you being a man, makes yourself God."
and that they were One
Where did he say that. Jesus is not the Father. They are different. All Christian Churches believe so If I'm mistaken. So how could they be one.
Again, the Jews were attempting to stone him regarding percieved blashpemy. This was long before Christ was even taken to the cross.
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneySo here we have Christ saying that if you have seen me you have seen the Father and on the other hand you have verses that say that no man has seen God at any time and lived. You also fogot about the verse that says that God has never been tempted at any time yet Christ was tempted by Satan in the wilderness.
In fact, Christ said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father
Jesus also said the no one can see the father.
And GOD also said, no one can see and live.
I would say that the weakened human state that Jesus assumed was not the natural state in which he originally existed. For example, do you remember that Christ said that before Abraham was, he existed? How can this be if he is a mortal like myself? I can't make the same claim that before Abraham was I AM. Can you? Can Mohammad? I would say that in God's natural state, before the incarnation, God had no weakenesses in which a temptation would seem to be percieved as a temptation. It would be akin tempting someone with a peice of watermelon after they had participated in a watermelon eating contest. The odds are that they have already had their fill and would not be tempted at the prospect because you are not approaching them in a state of need or desire. Also, man has never seen God in his natural state in the spiritual realm. This would mean death, however, in Christs human incarnation we were able to see a body that masked God incarnate.
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyAnd this is one of the points Jews raise is that Christ did not fulfill all of the prophesies regarding the Messiah. However, is he not coming back? Will he not reign the nations of the earth when he returns? Will he not bring peace once he comes back to earth to rule and reign? I believe even Muslims believe he is to return, no? So how is it that these prophesies cannot then refer to Christ? Is there not more to come?
[b]Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder; and his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, the Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace"
My friend you pick and choose: This is not about Jesus and can't be.
1- and the government will be upon his shoulder = J ...[text shortened]... xplaination of this scripture, it will make the prophcy not matching to Jesus.
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In regards to God being born, you simply say it makes no sense. That is because of your theology my friend. I suppose you will simply say that it has been corrupted, however, I am not of the same opinion.