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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    13 Feb '18 16:05
    '...there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.' (Psalm 14:1)



    If an atheist does one genuine good deed (say an altruistic act to save someone's life), has The Bible been disproven? - Yes, the theist could question what qualifies as a good deed, but please keep in mind Galatians 5:14:

    'For the entire LAW is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
  2. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    13 Feb '18 16:26
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    '...there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.' (Psalm 14:1)



    If an atheist does one genuine good deed (say an altruistic act to save someone's life), has The Bible been disproven? - Yes, the theist could question what qualifies as a good deed, but please keep in mind Galatians 5:14:

    'For the entire LAW is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
    The Bible hasn’t been disproven because the Psalm you’re referencing pertains to a specific time (this is evident in verse 2.)

    Here’s Psalm 14 in full:

    “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

    They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.

    There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

    Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the Lord is his refuge.

    Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the Lord bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.“
  3. 13 Feb '18 17:04
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    '...there is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.' (Psalm 14:1)



    If an atheist does one genuine good deed (say an altruistic act to save someone's life), has The Bible been disproven? - Yes, the theist could question what qualifies as a good deed, but please keep in mind Galatians 5:14:

    'For the entire LAW is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
    My impression is that your field is counseling of some kind.
    Did you recently make a career change and become a cherry picker?
    Is it more rewarding in some appreciable manner?
  4. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    13 Feb '18 17:18
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    The Bible hasn’t been disproven because the Psalm you’re referencing pertains to a specific time (this is evident in verse 2.)

    Here’s Psalm 14 in full:

    “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to ...[text shortened]... Lord bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.“
    The ability to take into consideration the context and the environment of the author is a common failure of many Christians. In interpreting Paul I notice you never ask yourself who is Paul addressing.

    Here too, the question is who is David addressing and what is the context. David writes at a time when nation of Israel was in its infancy and many surrounding nations were up against them, condemning their belief in the God of Israel and trying to wipe them out. This psalm specifically is about Sennacherib's attempt to invade Israel and the angel of God came and destroyed them.

    I know you wont like the very next psalm. But here it is: Its all about who will be in the Kingdom of God and its only those who do good works and live righteously.

    LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
    He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness,
    and speaketh the truth in his heart.
    He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour,
    nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
    In whose eyes a vile person is contemned;
    but he honoureth them that fear the LORD.
    He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
    He that putteth not out his money to usury,
    nor taketh reward against the innocent.
    He that doeth these things shall never be moved. (Psalms 15:1-5 KJV)


    David Christ, Paul and all the Apostles are in perfect conformity ..
    it is the righteous who will inherit the Kingdom of God.
  5. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    13 Feb '18 18:02
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    My impression is that your field is counseling of some kind.
    Did you recently make a career change and become a cherry picker?
    Is it more rewarding in some appreciable manner?
    If all the Bible is the word of God, what does it matter which cherry I pick? Surely that cherry is still of divine origin?
  6. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    13 Feb '18 18:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    The ability to take into consideration the context and the environment of the author is a common failure of many Christians. In interpreting Paul I notice you never ask yourself who is Paul addressing.

    Here too, the question is who is David addressing and what is the context. David writes at a time when nation of Israel was in its infancy and many surr ...[text shortened]... tles are in perfect conformity ..
    it is the righteous who will inherit the Kingdom of God.
    [/b]
    Psalm 15, the Psalm you referenced, was written about 500 years before Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection; obviously the New Covenant that God made with man through Christ’s shed blood was not yet in effect.

    Believers today, and since Christ’s blood sacrifice, are made righteous (in right standing with God) by believing in Jesus Christ. Jesus and Paul agree on this. David lived long before Jesus Christ came to earth in bodily form, and at that time, people were righteous by following the law.

    Please read Galatians. I’ve alteady posted Jesus Christ’s own words about how believing in Him is what gives someone salvation.

    That said, true belief in Christ (i.e, believing in Christ in one’s heart) will always lead to good works because God’s Holy Spirit will indwell the believer and change his or her heart (and consequently behavior) for the better.

    Justification (being righteous in the eyes of God) is immediate upon a person accepting Christ, receiving the Holy Spirit and gaining salvation, all of which take place at the same time,

    Sanctification, the process by which a believer becomes more Christ like, is an ongoing process while the believer is in the flesh.
  7. 13 Feb '18 18:33
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    If all the Bible is the word of God, what does it matter which cherry I pick? Surely that cherry is still of divine origin?
    At what point is the frame of reference important?
    Ever?

    You are using one in your OP, applying one phrase to another, as though applicable... are there no rules for association at all?
  8. 13 Feb '18 18:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    At what point is the frame of reference important?
    Ever?

    You are using one in your OP, applying one phrase to another, as though applicable... are there no rules for association at all?
    You are using one in your OP, applying one phrase to another, as though applicable... are there no rules for association at all?

    From what I've seen, Christians often take verses out of context from disparate sources, create a narrative to link them together and consider their narrative to be "the word of God".
  9. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    13 Feb '18 18:42
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Psalm 15, the Psalm you referenced, was written about 500 years before Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection; obviously the New Covenant that God made with man through Christ’s shed blood was not yet in effect.

    Believers today, and since Christ’s blood sacrifice, are made righteous (in right standing with God) by believing in Jesus Christ. Jesus ...[text shortened]... h a believer becomes more Christ like, is an ongoing process while the believer is in the flesh.
    Nonsense.

    God's Holy Spirit was upon the born again Christian saints Annanias and Sapphira.

    Paul told born again Christian Saints that there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God unless they live righteously... and this he did several times.

    Paul said that he himself needs to be careful otherwise he could be a castaway.

    It's not a foregone conclusion. It's not a guarantee.
  10. 13 Feb '18 18:49
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    [b]You are using one in your OP, applying one phrase to another, as though applicable... are there no rules for association at all?

    From what I've seen, Christians often take verses out of context from disparate sources, create a narrative to link them together and consider their narrative to be "the word of God".[/b]
    If the world adopted your exact perspective, in all principles, every nuance and degree, seen or otherwise, would you remain convinced of your position, or would you begin to possibly rethink some aspect of it?
  11. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    13 Feb '18 18:52
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    If all the Bible is the word of God, what does it matter which cherry I pick? Surely that cherry is still of divine origin?
    Nice one 😀
  12. 13 Feb '18 18:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    If the world adopted your exact perspective, in all principles, every nuance and degree, seen or otherwise, would you remain convinced of your position, or would you begin to possibly rethink some aspect of it?
    Not sure that this has anything to do with my post, but can you elaborate?
  13. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    13 Feb '18 19:27
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    At what point is the frame of reference important?
    Ever?

    You are using one in your OP, applying one phrase to another, as though applicable... are there no rules for association at all?
    My question was a reasonable one.

    Take as your 'frame of reference' that the Bible is a cherry tree and that all the cherries on its branches are of equal worth. Why should it matter which cherry I select to pick and closely examine? The Bible (in its entirety) being the word of God is a double-edged sword as it means you also have to defend and explain every cherry.
  14. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    13 Feb '18 20:00
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    My question was a reasonable one.

    Take as your 'frame of reference' that the Bible is a cherry tree and that all the cherries on its branches are of equal worth. Why should it matter which cherry I select to pick and closely examine? The Bible (in its entirety) being the word of God is a double-edged sword as it means you also have to defend and explain every cherry.
    You cannot make a pie, nay, not even a tart, with only one cherry.
  15. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    13 Feb '18 20:10
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    My question was a reasonable one.

    Take as your 'frame of reference' that the Bible is a cherry tree and that all the cherries on its branches are of equal worth. Why should it matter which cherry I select to pick and closely examine? The Bible (in its entirety) being the word of God is a double-edged sword as it means you also have to defend and explain every cherry.
    The one cherry you picked comes well recommended from all in the Bible from the Law of Moses to David, Solomon, the Prophets, Christ, and the Apostles. Indeed the bible closes with that very sentiment

    Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14 KJV)

    It is the essense of the teachings of all in the Bible.