Spirituality
25 Sep 06
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28 Sep 06
Originally posted by ckoh1965Unfortunately there are inconsistencies and conflicting facts in the bibles.
dj2, I was indecisive on what to believe. I reckoned that there's God. I read with interest the debates on here for quite a while now. I weighed the pros and cons; the arguments for and against the existence of God. It is very easy to lose oneself in the sea of the abstract and confusion. People offer ideas and reasonings. But at the end of it all, looking ...[text shortened]... me. In the end, in a way all this has been constructive to me; I found what I was looking for.
Would you mind to highlight some of these?
28 Sep 06
3 edits
Originally posted by dj2beckerGive it up dj. Can't you see how ineffectual your arguments are? You cannot win by openly debating these topics. You can only lose. Whenever the light of reason is shed upon dogma, dogma will always lose. Your best strategy would be to remain silent. Everyone pretty much knows the christian position, having been inundated with it for most of heir lives. But unfortuntely there are far fewer people who have been exposed to the more rigorous criticisms of christian dogma. By repeatedly providing a readymade forum for the continued expression of those criticisms, you only stand to lose. Ckoh1965's post is a prime example.
[b]Unfortunately there are inconsistencies and conflicting facts in the bibles.
Would you mind to highlight some of these?[/b]
That's why the church vigorously resisted the translation of the bible from Latin into other languages. They wanted to be able to tell the common man what he should think. They knew that if people were able to read the bible on their own, they would be able to reason for themselves and the vacuity of the church's position would be made clear. And so it has. When reason can freely compete against dogma, reason will win every time. The only way dogma can win is by shackling and repressing the free expression of reason.
By persuing these debates you are only helping spread reason to a wider audience. Since you can no longer supress the spread of reason, your best strategy would be to simply remain silent.
28 Sep 06
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingett*Applause*
Give it up dj. Can't you see how ineffectual your arguments are? You cannot win by openly debating these topics. You can only lose. Whenever the light of reason is shed upon dogma, dogma will always lose. Your best strategy would be to remain silent. Everyone pretty much knows the christian position, having been inundated with it for most of heir lives. But no longer supress the spread of reason, your best strategy would be to simply remain silent.
You ought to set up a soap-box at the corner of the local park and preach.
EDIT: Some reviews of Dawkins's effort:
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7803
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/churchtimes/website/pages.nsf/httppublicpages/11D7970C90F9E96E80257148003BFF99
28 Sep 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerDawkins is a shallow know-it-all when it comes to religion.
EDIT: Some reviews of Dawkins's effort:
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7803
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/churchtimes/website/pages.nsf/httppublicpages/11D7970C90F9E96E80257148003BFF99
28 Sep 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerI don't know about Prospect magazine, but Church Times is hardly an impartial source. It goes without saying that they would take a dim view of Dawkins.
*Applause*
You ought to set up a soap-box at the corner of the local park and preach.
EDIT: Some reviews of Dawkins's effort:
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7803
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/churchtimes/website/pages.nsf/httppublicpages/11D7970C90F9E96E80257148003BFF99
The 32 reviews of the book at Amazon.com give it an average of 4 out of 5 stars. Does that "prove" anything? No. It's just 32 different opinions. If you ask 32 theologians I'm sure the book would be given 1 star. So I put no special weight on your two reviews.
28 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettIt's the content. For example he seems to be off the mark about suicide bombing. Maybe he hasn't read Pape's book, or orfeo's thread 🙂
Is this an objection of his uncompromising style or the content of his argument?
When it comes to science he's usually right, so the style is appropriate. In this book he comes across like howardgee with tenure. Or something.
I don't think he's really interested in religion except as a target. That makes him a bit of a bozo. Which is good, otherwise he'd be unbearably perfect.
Somebody should invite him to the RHP Spirituality Forum. Didn't scottishinnz study at Cambridge...?
28 Sep 06
3 edits
Originally posted by rwingettI wondered whether an ad hominem argument was going to be your only response. Did you even read the articles?
I don't know about Prospect magazine, but Church Times is hardly an impartial source. It goes without saying that they would take a dim view of Dawkins.
The 32 reviews of the book at Amazon.com give it an average of 4 out of 5 stars. Does that "prove" anything? No. It's just 32 different opinions. If you ask 32 theologians I'm sure the book would be given 1 star. So I put no special weight on your two reviews.
If you want a more precise dissection of Dawkins's grasp of the philosophy of God, you can read the short post at:
http://rmadisonj.blogspot.com/2006/09/god-delusion.html
28 Sep 06
It is unfortunate that you cannot reason with people like dj2becker with sound logic...as I've stated before and will cut and paste from what I posted in another thread...
For any logical argument you can throw at them, religion's got it covered...
Is God male or female? he's neither
God created the universe, Who created God? he always existed...how is this so? because he's God silly! God can do anything!...How do you know? It says so in the bible what if the bible is wrong? we have faith that it isn't
If God is so great and good why do so many innocent people die horrid deaths? We don't know...but God does , oh and erm...The Lord works in mysterious ways
Why did God make nasty germs that make us sick? The lord works in mysterious ways...and because Adam shouldn't have eaten that apple too Why didn't God just hide the apple tree? because he wanted to test Adam's loyalty and so granted him the free will to choose But wouldn't God, who knows and can do everything have known that he'd nab the apple? The lord works in mysterious ways
Did God really create the world in seven days? Yes so evolution is a load of rubbish? It certainly is! If God made the world in 7 days and all humans were spawned from Adam & Eve, are dinosaurs made up too? (what actually is *your* answer to this one?)
Good Question... verse blah blah blah and/or silly answer someone just made up on the spot, or evasion
28 Sep 06
Originally posted by lucifershammerOf course I didn't read the articles. Why would I? I'll read the book and form my own opinion.
I wondered whether an ad hominem argument was going to be your only response. Did you even read the articles?
If you want a more precise dissection of Dawkins's grasp of the philosophy of God, you can read the short post at:
http://rmadisonj.blogspot.com/2006/09/god-delusion.html