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@sonship saidFaith without works is DEAD.
You well notice that Rajk999 often brags that Atheists who do not believe God IS or the HE EXISTS to be any kind of rewarder will be well pleasing to God to enter into the kingdom of God.
Charity is greater than faith.
Love is the fulfilment of the law
Calling Lord Lord displeases Christ
Ignoring the poor is an insult to God
God loves a cheerful giver
The sheep of Christ keep the commandments
The sheep get eternal life
No eternal life in the Kingdom of God for Christians who live in sin.
Christians who profess faith and defile themselves with sin are destroyed.
You and your doctrine promote nothing of the above.
You promote Faith without works and Mouth worship.
You are on your way to damnation
Good Samaritan Atheists will see the Kingdom of God before Priests, Levites and the Sonship Mouth worshipping Christian types.
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@sonship saidWrong again. Justifcation by faith is conditional. That means that there is a stipulation in this kind of justification which makes it null and void if that condition is violated. The condition is righteousness. Righteousness is good works and keeping the commandments. Paul condemned Christians []like you] who want to promote faith without works
And it so refutes Rajk999's war upon the firm foundation of justification by faith.
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. (Galatians 2:17 KJV)
You will say YES to that. It is ok to sin and still get eternal life becasue you are under Grace. But you are wrong again
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2 KJV)
Your version of Grace is an abuse of Christ death on the cross, because you promote sin and evil.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV)
NO MORE GRACE FOR SINNERS
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More on justification :
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV
DOERS ARE JUSTIFIED. There is no condition like in the case of justification by faith. Righteousness is the condition in the case of justification by faith, because those professing faith have done nothing. DOERS are already DOING. They are not hearing or learning or blabbering like some Christians. They are DOING and KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS.
DOERS ARE JUSTIFIED.
So people who boast of this passage
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2 Timothy 2:19 KJV)
and claim they are justified by faith and have a firm foundation are lying to themselves if they ignore the part about departing from iniquity..... only those who live righteously [ie good works and keeping the commandments ] are justified by faith.
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@rajk999 saidRomans 2:13
More on justification :
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV
DOERS ARE JUSTIFIED. There is no condition like in the case of justification by faith. Righteousness is the condition in the case of justification by faith, because those professing faith have done nothing. DOERS are already ...[text shortened]... abbering like some Christians. They are DOING and KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS.
DOERS ARE JUSTIFIED.
Sets for the principle of justification by one's keeping of the law in verse 13.
This is followed by:
Romans 3:24 - "Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus."
But Rajk999 will then argue that I am encouraging to continue heartily to live a sinful life.
Romans 2:13 is also followed by -
Romans 3:20 - "If indeed God is one, who will justify the circumcision out of faith and the uncircumcision through faith."
To this also Rajk999 will argue that I am encouraging Christians to continue to live sinful lives.
Romans 2:13 is also followed by -
Romans 4:5 - "But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted as righteousness."
But to this Rajk999 will argue that I am teaching Christians should ignore righteous living and continue to live sinful lives.
Romans 2:13 is also followed by -
Romans 3:22 - "Even the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ to all those who believe, for there is no distinction;"
But to this Rajk999 will comfort himself with the slander that I am teaching that Christians should continue to live sinful lives after being justified by faith.
Romans 2:13 is also followed by -
Romans 3:19 - "Because out of works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin."
But to this Rajk999 will say I am encouraging Christians to continue after being saved to live sinful lives.
You all get the pattern of his twisting. It seems that Rajk999's book of Romans means only two chapters. There are actually sixteen chapters to the book.
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@sonship saidWhat a lame post. Pathetic. My posts were clear. You want to talk justification by faith? Yes, there is a CONDITION with justification by faith and it is called righteousness ie good works and keeping the commandments. You do not say these things in your post so you are in fact encouraging people to sin.
Romans 2:13
Sets for the principle of justification by one's keeping of the law in verse 13.
This is followed by:
Romans 3:24 - "Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus."
But Rajk999 will then argue that I am encouraging to continue heartily to live a sinful life.
Romans 2:13 is a ...[text shortened]... 99's book of Romans means only two chapters. There are actually sixteen chapters to the book.
Doers are justified, but those who profess faith are NOT JUSTIFIED UNTIL THEY CONTINUE WITH RIGHTEOUSNSS.
Charity is greater than Faith. Faith is LESS THAN Charity. I tell people about good works and charity [ GREATER THINGS] You tell people about faith [lesser things], and ignore the righteousness that MUST ACCOMPANY FAITH.
Your doctrine of faith alone is lesser than a doctrine based on charity. You are a lesser man, and according to James you are also a DEAD MAN.
@rajk999 saidNot denying we are to do the will of Christ only that He is a requirement in our lives. If you are not abiding in Christ what then?
More on justification :
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13 KJV
DOERS ARE JUSTIFIED. There is no condition like in the case of justification by faith. Righteousness is the condition in the case of justification by faith, because those professing faith have done nothing. DOERS are already ...[text shortened]... nly those who live righteously [ie good works and keeping the commandments ] are justified by faith.
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@kellyjay saidYour question is vague as usual.
Not denying we are to do the will of Christ only that He is a requirement in our lives. If you are not abiding in Christ what then?
Someone who abides in Christ, keeps the commandments.
Someone who does not keep the commandments is not abiding in Christ
Whoever abides in Christ they keep the commandments and get eternal life
Whoever does not keep the commandments does not get eternal life.
Professions of faith is nothing and calling Lord, Lord is worthless, unless it is backed up with good works and righteousness.
The Good Samaritan was abiding in Christ.
The Priest and Levite were not, despite their faith.
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Rajk999 says
Professions of faith is nothing and calling Lord, Lord is worthless, unless it is backed up with good works and righteousness.
The Bible says -
"For the Scripture says, Everyone who believes on Him shall not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all and rich to all who call upon Him; For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Rom. 10:11-13)
Rajk999 will then refer to Matthew 7:21 which shows that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom the heavens but only those who do the will of His Father.
The Lord can save a man and discipline him during the kingdom age.
The verse does not teach believers NOT to call on the name of the Lord.
The verse does not even explicitly say they called. It says they will say.
The verse warns that to receive the reward of reigning with Christ in the kingdom of the heavens manifested during the millennium it is necessary that we do the will of the Father.
First Corinthians 3:14,15 shows that some believers will:
1.) Suffer loss.
2.) Nor receive a reward.
3.) Yet be saved as through fire.
To use Matthew 7:32 to encourage Christians not to be disobedient to the will of the Father is using the passage as it is intended.
To go beyond this and use the passage to teach people NOT to call on the name of the Lord is, in my view evil and probably a doctrine of demons.
The passage also does not say they do not have eternal life.
It says they will not enter into the kingdom of the heavens.
The verse 23 say the Lord never knew them or approve them. "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness."
The word there is the same as is used in Romans 7:21 where Paul says he did not acknowledge those things he did. He did not approve of the things he did by his sin nature.
"For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice; but what I hate I do." (Rom. 7:15)
Paul did not approve or acknowledge those things. In the same sense, the Lord will inform some who did things in His name apparently, that He never approved of acknowledged those lawless deeds done under the banner of His name. He never KNEW them. He never APPROVED of their methods.
In the same manner, those who suffer loss and lose the reward yet are saved in 1 Cor. 3:14 will not have their works of wood, hay, stubble approved.
They will suffer loss and not receive a reward in the coming millennial kingdom.
"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)
The only alternative to this interpretation of Matthew 7:21-23 is that the apostolic teaching of Romans 10:9-13 is a lie.
I will never accept Rajk999's assertion that Romans 10:9-13 is a lie.
You all believe what you like.
I have no problem believing that Jesus can save someone eternally yet discipline that disobedient follower temporarily after His second coming.
I would be very suspicious of anyone using Matt. 7:21-23 to forbid anyone from calling on the Lord out of a pure heart because He is rich to all who call upon Him.
There are hundreds of instances of calling on the Lord in the Bible - about 500 up to and including the book of Psalms I believe.
Did God reward Saul of Tarsus or rebuke Saul of Tarsus for rounding up all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus?
"But Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many concerning this man, how many evil things he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem; And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon Your name." (Acts 9:13,14)
Did the Lord say "That is what I want Saul to do, to STOP all who are calling on My name and drag them out of their houses and persecute them."
Of course not. In fact at his baptism by Ananias Paul was instructed to call on the name of the Lord Jesus himself.
"And now, why do you delay? Rise up and be baptized and wash away your sins, CALLING ON HIS NAME" (Acts 22:16 my emphasis)
@sonship saidAnd why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
I would be very suspicious of anyone using Matt. 7:21-23 to forbid anyone from calling on the Lord out of a pure heart because He is rich to all who call upon Him. [/b]
(Luke 6:46 KJV)
Nobody says not to call the name of the Lord. But that is all you do. Doing what Jesus says is far more important that calling him Lord Lord.
Your focus is totally wrong. Your focus is an insult to Christ.
@sonship saidFor whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I will never accept Rajk999's assertion that Romans 10:9-13 is a lie.
You all believe what you like. [/b]
(Romans 10:13 KJV)
'Saved' and 'Eternal Life' are two different things and this is why I almost never used the word Saved. It is misleading. Not all saved people get eternal life.
So I never had anything to say about that passage.
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. But that is all you do.
No it is not.
When I seek to lead people how to touch the Lord Jesus the available resurrected Son of God I follow what the Apostle Paul taught.
He is RICH, RICH (not poor) to all who Call upon Him.
To obey Him you better contact Him within for grace, for empowering, for support.
You LIE saying I only teach mouthing vainly the name of Jesus.
And you cannot confess Jesus is Lord because of a self righteous reliance that you
don't need the Lord Jesus Christ.
" . . . and no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3b)
@sonship saidYou just cannot help yourself. Everytime you are in a corner you resort to personal comments and attacks. I have no interest in you personally and I wish you had no interest in me. Our function as posters in a Spirituality forum should be to promote the truth as Jesus preached it. You have failed to do that. That is my only interest. Your personal Christian walk is irrelevant. Mine should be as well but unfortunately you cannot handle being fair and objective in your discussions. I pity you.
@Rajk999. But that is all you do.
No it is not.
When I seek to lead people how to touch the Lord Jesus the available resurrected Son of God I follow what the Apostle Paul taught.
He is RICH, RICH (not poor) to all who Call upon Him.
To obey Him you better contact Him within for grace, for empowering, for support.
You LIE sayi ...[text shortened]... t.
" . . . and no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3b)
@rajk999 saidOur works will be tested and can be burned up, making them meaningless; the thing that matters is Christ in us.
Your question is vague as usual.
Someone who abides in Christ, keeps the commandments.
Someone who does not keep the commandments is not abiding in Christ
Whoever abides in Christ they keep the commandments and get eternal life
Whoever does not keep the commandments does not get eternal life.
Professions of faith is nothing and calling Lord, Lord is worthless, unle ...[text shortened]... .
The Good Samaritan was abiding in Christ.
The Priest and Levite were not, despite their faith.
Acts 13:2
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
Galatians 3:2
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Titus 3:4-6
English Standard Version
But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Hebrews 9:14
how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
We can have works and be dead towards God; it is God who gives us His life in Christ, He is the way.
Revelation 3:1
To the Church in Sardis
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
1 Corinthians 3
For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
If you are not walking with the Lord, you are not walking with the Lord. If you do not have the Spirit of God within you, you do not belong to the Lord. You deny Christ before man, Jesus will deny you before the Father.
Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
If you are not following Christ, if you are not picking up your cross to do that you are not following Christ.
Matthew 16:24
Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Mark 8:34
And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
This is more than just doing good, even though doing good is a part of it, without Jesus Christ your good works are meaningless. We must have that connection with God in our lives, if we don't we are not abiding in Him, your rajk999 gospel is good works over the Christ in our lives, your rajk999 gospel has us trying to earn what God gives freely. We do the good works because of His grace in us, we forgive because we have been forgiven, we show kindness because of the kindness we are shown. To suggest anything short has done these things simply out of the goodness of our hearts when our hearts are the judge of who is worthy of our good intention. God while we were yet sinners did good to us by sending Jesus Christ to us, while we were enemies of God, God showed kindness to us as He does with all of His blessings.
@KellyJay
It is more than just earning our way into heaven here.
2 Corinthians spells it out nicely in a couple of passages.
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. But we pray to God that you may not do wrong—not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed. For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Are you walking with God or not, is Christ in you or not, do you have fellowship with the Holy Spirit or not. These are to wonderful to earn; they are available to us through the grace and mercy of God. We do the things He desires; because of the love He has given us we can love others; we can forgive because He has forgiven us.
@kellyjay saidA load of church baloney.
This is more than just doing good, even though doing good is a part of it, without Jesus Christ your good works are meaningless. We must have that connection with God in our lives, if we don't we are not abiding in Him, your rajk999 gospel is good works over the Christ in our lives, your rajk999 gospel has us trying to earn what God gives freely. We do the good works becau ...[text shortened]... to us, while we were enemies of God, God showed kindness to us as He does with all of His blessings.