1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    21 Mar '16 14:28
    The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15 NASB) (04 Jan '14 21:45 / 2 edits) Thread 157295

    "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15*

    "This is the saddest and most sobering passage in all of Scripture. Remember our Lord wept over death (John 11:35; Luke 19:41) - both physical death and especially the spiritual death (the second death) of all the unsaved, of all those who reject Him and His saving love offered at the cross. "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!" (Ezek. 33:11) Thus no man should be able to read or teach this passage without sorrow in his heart, if not tears in his eyes. The reason Jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else did is because He wanted no one to go there. "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9; also see John 3:16) Yet, we see here and throughout the Bible, both the reality of hell, eternal torment, and the justice of hell.

    "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them." The next scene John saw was the great white throne with the Lord Jesus Christ sitting upon it. This is based on John 5:22: "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." (Also see John 5:22-29 that speaks of the resurrection of the saved and the unrepentant and 2 Tim. 4:1.) At this point in this unfolding revelation, all those saved, Old and New Testament saints, Tribulation saints, and by implication, Millennial saints, have all received their resurrected, glorified bodies and thus belong to the new creation (2 Cor. 5:17) as God is about to destroy the old creation, the heavens and the earth (v.11).

    "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness." (See 2 Peter 3:7-13) "Since the coming of the Lord is in fact the end of the natural universe (2 Pet. 3:10-13), we read that there was found no place for them (v. 11), making way for a new heaven and a new earth to occupy the place left vacant by their dismissal" (21:1).Gregg, Steve: Revelation, Four Views : A Parallel Commentary. Nashville , Tenn. : T. Nelson Publishers, 1997. Satan and his demons have defiled the heavens (Eph. 6:12) and the earth is polluted and sin-soaked with the evil of fallen man. God's new creation will not just be a renovation and renewal as seen in the Millennium but an entirely new heaven and new earth. Science says that matter cannot be created or destroyed but God does both as seen here and in Genesis 1.

    "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life." What a scary and awe-filled scene like the one Daniel describes in his vision (Dan. 7: 9-10). It seems that all unsaved people from Cain to the last rebel we see in the Millennium are all together standing before the Lord Jesus ready to be judged based on their works (and books were opened) and sentenced by the Judge of all. Scripture says no one is righteous, no one keeps the law and no one is saved by works of righteousness (e.g., See Rom. 3-4) because even our best deeds are as filthy rags [menstrual rags] compared to the pure white perfect righteousness of God (Isa. 64:6). The righteousness that God requires for a person to be saved is the perfect righteousness a righteous God is required to require. (Matt. 5:48) Thus the only way to be saved is by grace (God's undeserved forgiveness and favor) through faith (in what God in Christ did for us on the cross when He took the punishment for all of our sins and credited us with His perfect righteousness), and not by works (Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Cor. 5:21)."

    http://www.kenboa.org/text_resources/teaching_letters/lens_mens_fellowship/6640

    * "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." It grieves me to realize there's the possibility that some of my acquaintances and friends who contribute to this forum may be among them. -Bob
    ___________________________

    Comment: Yes, it still "grieves me to realize there's the possibility that some of my acquaintances and friends
    who contribute to this forum may be among them." = those who by their own uncoerced will chose to reject rather
    than to accept God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life who will suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire....
  2. Cape Town
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    21 Mar '16 14:53
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Comment: Yes, it still "grieves me to realize there's the possibility that some of my acquaintances and friends
    who contribute to this forum may be among them." = those who by their own uncoerced will chose to reject rather
    than to accept God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life who will suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire....
    And it has been noted that despite your grief, you prefer to act pompous than actually hold a reasonable conversation with those doomed souls in the hope of changing their minds. Crocodile tears.
  3. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    21 Mar '16 15:17
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]The Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15 NASB) (04 Jan '14 21:45 / 2 edits) Thread 157295

    "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15*

    "This is the saddest and most sobering passage in all of Scripture. Remember our Lord wept over death (John ...[text shortened]... 's grace gift of salvation and eternal life who will suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire....[/b]
    Please do not be grieved sir on my behalf. The lake of fire is an ancient myth with no more credibility or earthly relevance than the fire of Mordor. I thank the Lord that i am born in an age where i am immune to fear tactics and do not feel the compulsion to use them against others.
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    21 Mar '16 17:032 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    And it has been noted that despite your grief, you prefer to act pompous than actually hold a reasonable conversation with those doomed souls in the hope of changing their minds. Crocodile tears.
    If it is true, the degree of pompousness he shows, no matter how great, can't make it untrue. One can shed a million insincere crocodile tears over the law of gravity. That law remains.
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    21 Mar '16 17:162 edits
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Please do not be grieved sir on my behalf. The lake of fire is an ancient myth with no more credibility or earthly relevance than the fire of Mordor. I thank the Lord that i am born in an age where i am immune to fear tactics and do not feel the compulsion to use them against others.
    Warning that the Titanic was going to sink in a couple of hours, was not the utilization of a fear tactic. The same applies to the last judgment.

    Stop and think for a minute. By man's technology, we can recover if needed, what you wrote on the Internet, where you visited and what you said. Cars are being created which self drive. The only problem is that they will record all kinds of info about where you had the car take you to and from, how long, what speed, etc.

    Your phone records - recorded.
    Your actions on the computer - to a large degree recorded.
    Hackers can snoop here and learn about you and snoop there and learn about you.

    This is what faulty man can do with increasing precision. Records, logs, tape recordings, surveillance, photos, etc. This is just what man's technology can do both for safety and inforcement, rightly or wrongly.

    What do you think God can do?
    Don't think it is only against you. Why it is also in your favor to.
    You don't think there are a final going over of the books regarding our lives?

    I find it a relief, that ultimate justice cannot fail.
  6. Cape Town
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    21 Mar '16 17:28
    Originally posted by sonship
    If it is true, the degree of pompousness he shows, no matter how great, can't make it untrue. One can shed a million insincere crocodile tears over the law of gravity. That law remains.
    Agreed.

    They are still crocodile tears.

    And its still not true.
  7. Cape Town
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    21 Mar '16 17:36
    Originally posted by sonship
    What do you think God can do?
    That a god could do it is without question, so that whole speech trying to convince us of that was a wasted effort.

    A more interesting question is why God would do it, and if he did, why wouldn't you judge him to be just as evil as a big corporation that tracked your movements for profit?

    I find it a relief, that ultimate justice cannot fail.
    What is 'justice' to you? If I am not mistaken Grampy is talking about getting off the hook by making an uncoerced choice to accept God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life. Lets forget for now the obvious contradiction that he puts this uncoerced choice right next to threats of coercion.
    How is acceptance of this gift to avoid punishment 'justice'?
    How is the punishment itself 'justice'?

    Stop and think for a minute.
    I wish you would, but you are too busy preaching.
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    21 Mar '16 18:53
    Originally posted by sonship

    Warning that the Titanic was going to sink in a couple of hours, was not the utilization of a fear tactic. The same applies to the last judgment...
    No sir, with respect, it doesn't.

    If the captain of the titanic (or member of the crew) warned me that the ship was going to sink then i would certainly heed the warning and make my way hastily to the lifeboat.

    For me though, the authority of the bible is not the same as the authority of the ship's captain. Whereas the captain offered a credible warning, the bible offers nothing but ancient stories written for men long dead. The fear tactics were for their benefit, not mine.

    I do see the sense of justice in a last Judgement, but then i also see justice in the notion of reincarnation. Wanting something of course doesn't make it so.
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    21 Mar '16 19:09
    GB plays a variation on this theme every so often, with pretty much the same results. He must get something out of it, heaven knows what.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Mar '16 01:31
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Yes, it still "grieves me to realize there's the possibility that some of my acquaintances and friends who contribute to this forum may be among them." = those who by their own uncoerced will chose to reject rather than to accept God's grace gift of salvation and eternal life who will suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire....
    According to your personal mind map and with your understanding of the English language, if the threat of being consigned to "suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire" as a revenge/punishment for not taking certain action is somehow not "coercion", what would be an example of "coercion"?
  11. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    22 Mar '16 03:57
    Originally posted by FMF
    According to your personal mind map and with your understanding of the English language, if the threat of being consigned to "suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire" as a revenge/punishment for not taking certain action is somehow not "coercion", what would be an example of "coercion"?
    Reveal Hidden Content
    "When the solution is simple, God is answering." ~Albert Einstein
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    22 Mar '16 04:49
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "When the solution is simple, God is answering." ~Albert Einstein
    You are dodging the question. And the question goes to the very heart of your OP. You appear to be using the word uncoerced in an Orwellian way.

    If you intend to discuss your own OP with any sincerity ~ or indeed, if you properly understand what it is you have written in your OP ~ you need to show how a threat of being made to "suffer for eternity in the Lake of Fire" (by way of vengeance and retribution) for failure to do something can credibly be characterized as not being "coercion".
  13. Subscribermoonbus
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    22 Mar '16 06:33
    "Will I see you in heaven?" I am sometimes asked by my Christian friends.

    "Yes, if your eyes are open," is my standard answer.
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    22 Mar '16 06:462 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
    Revelation 20:15
    You aledged concern for your fellow posters avoiding the eternal suffering which was created especially for them by the God who loved them so much he came and died for them...is well noted Grampy Bobby. As is you insistence in avoiding discussion about that and every other topic you post about.
  15. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    22 Mar '16 07:52
    Originally posted by moonbus
    "Will I see you in heaven?" I am sometimes asked by my Christian friends.

    "Yes, if your eyes are open," is my standard answer.
    "Will I see you in Starbucks?" I am sometimes asked by my atheist friends.

    "Yes, if you're buying," is my standard answer.
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