"The Great White Throne Judgment"

Error.

Originally posted by divegeester
Error.

I have never heard the bible summed up so succinctly. 🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Will I see you in Starbucks?" I am sometimes asked by my atheist friends.

"Yes, if you're buying," is my standard answer.

"Ok, but not if this is going to cost me 1200 pounds. Starbuck's ain't that good."

Originally posted by moonbus
"Ok, but not if this is going to cost me 1200 pounds. Starbuck's ain't that good."

It really is a misconception sir that I am obsessive about acquiring 12 hundred pounds. Indeed, I am clueless as to where this notion originated and it leaves me feeling rather bewildered and discombobulated.

....Send me a cheque for 12 hundred pounds and we'll speak no more of it.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
It really is a misconception sir that I am obsessive about acquiring 12 hundred pounds. Indeed, I am clueless as to where this notion originated and it leaves me feeling rather bewildered and discombobulated.

....Send me a cheque for 12 hundred pounds and we'll speak no more of it.

I know of a therapist who has had quite some success in curing people of 12-hundred-pound obsessions. His fee is 1200 pounds. Shall I refer you? My fee is .... shucks, I'll even offer you a discount: 1199.

Yours sincerely,
Moonraker
aka Infrequently Vile

No sir, with respect, it doesn't.

If the captain of the titanic (or member of the crew) warned me that the ship was going to sink then i would certainly heed the warning and make my way hastily to the lifeboat.

Well, this Jesus Christ is called also "the Prince of Life" . And you could well consider the Prince of Life analogous to the captain of a great ship.

If the world were a great ship could you not see Jesus as having more authority over its workings than anyone else ? I could. But the analogy is not meant to be perfect. I consider the character of the one who utters words of expectation. Who He is commands my attention to His words.

For me though, the authority of the bible is not the same as the authority of the ship's captain. Whereas the captain offered a credible warning, the bible offers nothing but ancient stories written for men long dead. The fear tactics were for their benefit, not mine.

The complaint of oldness never impresses me. I would say the test of time has rendered the teachings of Jesus more worthy of serious heed, not less. The latest fad or some recent gimmick that has gone "viral" doesn't impress me as much as that which has stood the torture test of passing ages.

I do see the sense of justice in a last Judgement, but then i also see justice in the notion of reincarnation. Wanting something of course doesn't make it so.

We have to consider that a straight line exists or else how can we know what crooked is?
If there is not final justice, I don't see how we can speak of justice.

If we cannot imagine a consummate balancing of the moral scales of the universe, I don't know how we can speak of an imbalance of moral universe.

As for reincarnation, I would ask you what I seem not to get an answer from Dasa on.
Of what benefit to the past life that reincarnated to YOU is your existing? No benefit can I see. Whatever that life was (if reincarnation is true) is gone.

Whatever "you" come back as next, whether frog, gerbil, woman, another man, you'll have no benefit in that whatsoever. You'll be gone. And just as your alledged previous life you have no remembrance of, so on down the line.

Reincarnation means a whole different and another life. Of no improvement or disadvantage is that to each previous incarnation. So where is the accounting? Where is the final adjudicating of your deeds ?

If Mr. A lives75 years, dies and reincarnates as Ms. B, however Ms. B lives has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. A. So I don't see a belief in reincarnation to be equivalent to each man's "books" reviewed by God as pertaining to each man.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Agreed.

They are still crocodile tears.

And its still not true.

There are crocodile tears and there is against that, also wishful thinking.
There are crocodile tears and there is a silly grin of hopeful idealism.

You hope that there is no last judgment.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"Will I see you in Starbucks?" I am sometimes asked by my atheist friends.

"Yes, if you're buying," is my standard answer.

You have friends outside of chess?!

Originally posted by RBHILL
You have friends outside of chess?!

Are you assuming he has friends inside of chess?

Originally posted by sonship
You hope that there is no last judgment.

And you hope there is. It's a draw (insufficient material to prove the point).

Originally posted by sonship
There are crocodile tears and there is against that, also wishful thinking.

My thinking is based on knowledge and rationality not wishes. Yours on the other hand ....

I find it a relief, that ultimate justice cannot fail.

I am also not sure why you place my supposed 'wishful thinking' against crocodile tears. They are hardly opposites or mutually exclusive.

You hope that there is no last judgment.
I know there is no last judgement.

And I note that you do not care to discuss what you actually mean by justice.

Originally posted by RBHILL
You have friends outside of chess?!

I have friends 'in spite' of chess.

Originally posted by twhitehead
My thinking is based on knowledge and rationality not wishes. Yours on the other hand ....

I find it a relief, that ultimate justice cannot fail.

I am also not sure why you place my supposed 'wishful thinking' against crocodile tears. They are hardly opposites or mutually exclusive.

[b]You hope that there is no last judgmen ...[text shortened]... last judgement.

And I note that you do not care to discuss what you actually mean by justice.

Why do you "note" that ?
The passage really needs not that much discussion.

Books containing an infallible record of one's deeds are opened to a God who both can save and can condemn. For there is left no iniquity not dealt with.

Iniquity means in-equal. And in-equal implies a unbalanced moral situation where what OUGHT was not matched with what WAS.

A third grader can understand this. Probably even younger. We may want to haul the simplicity of the matter off into obfuscation of philosophical argumentation. But our everyday life betrays that we perfectly understand what moral imbalance in this way means.

Whatever sophisticated arguments you are preparing to use to negate the accounting to a higher authority concerning our deeds, you don't behave that way in your practical everyday life. I am sure you are quite sensitive when you have been on the receiving end of unrighteousness.

I understand that you don't believe in any final judgment of God.
But I have to take very seriously the life, character, deeds, and words of the One who teaches of these things. I would feel dishonest to imagine that such a Person never lived or was concocted out of imagination.

I can imagine embellishments upon the life of that Person.
And there is apocryphal tales which are non-canonical. But aside from those fanciful embellishments my belief is that the core of truth is communicated faithfully to us in the four gospels.

This matter of the last judgement would not be taken seriously by me probably, if the speaker of such things had less moral approvedness than Jesus Christ. The fact that His integrity is above reproach and above criticism prompts me to take Him seriously about a final judgment.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I have friends 'in spite' of chess.

Yes, we know about them. When is their next parole hearing?

Originally posted by sonship

No sir, with respect, it doesn't.

If the captain of the titanic (or member of the crew) warned me that the ship was going to sink then i would certainly heed the warning and make my way hastily to the lifeboat.

Well, this Jesus Christ is called also [b]"the Prince of Life" . And you could well consider the Prince of Life analogous t ...[text shortened]... reincarnation to be equivalent to each man's "books" reviewed by God as pertaining to each man.[/b]

Just to make sure there's no confusion, i do not believe in the idea of reincarnation, just acknowledge that having more than one existence does offer an interesting 'idea' of justice. - In its simplest form, i might die as a child in one life as a result of a deadly disease, which would seem deeply unfair if that was my only life. However if i was then reincarnated as a chap who lived a long healthy life the injustice of the first life would be negated.

I do think you would perhaps benefit from a little study on the concept of reincarnation as i don't think you have quite got it. (And waiting on Dasa to explain anything logically is like waiting for a dripping tap to converse with you in Mongolian). - Multiple lives are still held together by the same thread. (Perhaps you would relate to this better by thinking of it as the continuation of 'one soul.' ). Each existence, a consequence of the karma of the previous existence, adds something to this 'one soul' taking it closer to enlightenment (or for your benefit 'union with God.' ).

So to answer your question:

"Of what benefit to the past life that reincarnated to YOU is your existing? No benefit can I see. Whatever that life was (if reincarnation is true) is gone."

It is the same soul that lived the previous life 'and' this one. The fact i have no memory of the previous life is irrelevant. This life is a direct result of the previous life, and is a continuation of the same soul's journey towards the infinite. (Each existence adds to the maturation of the 'same' soul). To take your example:

"If Mr. A lives 75 years, dies and reincarnates as Ms. B, however Ms. B lives has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. A."

Mr A's good and bad actions during his 75 years (his karma) has directly influenced his following existence as Ms B and the situation Ms B finds herself in. Perhaps, for example, Mr A was a terrible racist in his existence and could not relate to people of a different skin colour who he saw as beneath him.- As Ms B however he might find himself living as a black woman, which would give him the insight lacking in his previous life as Mr A, aiding his soul's journey towards the light.