@ghost-of-a-duke saidBump for sonship.
As an aside, do you honestly think Jehovah's Witnesses view Jesus, God's first creation, as an enemy? Is your knowledge of their beliefs really that naive?
Why do you do that? Why do you misrepresent the beliefs of others to grandiose your own? I've seen you do the same thing with Hinduism.
If you don't actually think Jehovah's Witnesses view Jesus as their enemy you should grow a pair, apologise and retract the accusation.
@medullah saidThanks. Yes the information is out there on the origin of the trinity. I've brought this up before as have others too in the past in regards to this historical fact and the usual response is that it was a different trinity. I don't get what that means but as they say "if the shoe fits".
You are correct. There is a very deep book called "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop a Scottish minister of the early 1900s. He winkles out and explains the origins of a lot of the pagan stuff that Divegeester earlier referenced including the Trinity, how it came about from Babylonian mythos/teaching, and who it originally referred to. Fascinating stuff if you have time, and real eye opener on how badly "Christianity" has become corrupted.
And yes it has become a mess over the last few centuries but then again Jesus said it would. That's also why one has to study and test the scriptures with scriptures. If one finds a scripture that is confusing, then prayer to Jehovah is needed and then truly listen for the answer and then be humble and accept it. And the key is you have to pray to Jehovah and use his name and of course make sure you use the correct channel by making this prayer go thru Jesus. He will make sure his Father gets it.
@bigdogg saidThe notion that atheists view Jesus, a figure from history, as an enemy is truly laughable. It's akin to saying I view Alexander the Great or Napoleon as an enemy.
I'm an atheist; Christ is not my enemy, and neither are you.
You don't get to tell other people who their enemies are.
I don't even have enemies among the living.
If you don't actually think Jehovah's Witnesses view Jesus as their enemy you should grow a pair, apologise and retract the accusation.
The Bible, nor the apostles, nor the believers in general have nothing to apologize for to those who teach "another Jesus" then what the Gospels proclaim.
It extends the same opportunity to repent and believe the gospel.
"Be imitators together of me, brothers, and observe those who thus walk even as you have us as a pattern. For many walk, of whom I have told you often and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, . . . " (Phil. 3:17,18)
The Apostle Paul did not teach the Son of God was the first angel created by Jehovah, a status that the JW's long to demote Christ to. That is not the pattern which the NT believers were to follow.
Your crocodile tears not withstanding, to be an enemy of the cross of Christ is to RESIST denying the self for the sake of recognizing Jesus is Lord. It is to be an enemy to dethroning the fallen SELF of that the center of one's life is the Lord Jesus Who died and rose for us.
Galveston should not be an enemy of the cross of Christ of of God's economy
or of the eternal redemption accomplished by Christ.
Jesus in a parable spoke of those who were enemies of His saying that they WOULD NOT have this man to reign over them.
" . . . A certain man of noble birth went to a distant country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. And he called ten slaves and gave them ten minas, and he said to them, Do business until I come. But his citizens hated him and sent an envoy after him, saying, We do not want this man to reign over us." (Luke 19:12-14)
Jesus Christ is the man who ascended to heaven to return some day at the end of the church age to reign over the earth. He gave His believers, His servants the talents to do business for Him that He might reward them when He returns. But certain of the world sent up the message - "We do not want this man to reign over us. We are only Jehovah's Witnesses" .
Jesus said "You shall be My witnesses" in the book of Acts. (Acts 1:8)
He is Jehovah incarnate.
Jesus says they were the enemies of that noble king, not disobedient servants, but opposing enemies of His kingship.
"However, these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me." (verse 27)
So such enemies of Christ it is best to warn that they may repent rather than be apologized to for rejecting the Lord Jesus. THAT is the loving thing to do - urge them to repent of being enemies of the Son of God and receive Him as Lord and King which He is.
@sonship saidSo the Bible gives you carte blanche to make false statements and misrepresent what people actually believe, tell people who are and aren't their enemies? Is that what you believe?!
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
If you don't actually think Jehovah's Witnesses view Jesus as their enemy you should grow a pair, apologise and retract the accusation.
The Bible, nor the apostles, nor the believers in general have nothing to apologize for to those who teach "another Jesus" then what the Gospels proclaim.
As you frequently twist scripture to accommodate the ravings of Witness Lee I will henceforth feel justified in describing you as the enemy of Christ.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSonship's God is Witness Lee. He does not believe in the true God of Israel, who sent His Son, Jesus to preach to people and tell them who his friends are and who his enemies are. Had he believed in Christ he would have preached the Gospel of Christ, which is what Jesus preached. His teachings around here has virtually nothing of Christ except talk, and they are totally void of DOING.
So the Bible gives you carte blanche to make false statements and misrepresent what people actually believe, tell people who are and aren't their enemies? Is that what you believe?!
As you frequently twist scripture to accommodate the ravings of Witness Lee I will henceforth feel justified in describing you as the enemy of Christ.
The friends of Christ are the sheep who hear his voice and keep the commandments and they get eternal life. The enemies of Christ are the sonship type, the PB1022 type and Kj types who encourage disobedience to the commandments, and they will reap damnation
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)
The Importance of the Trinity is seen in the steps God went through to reach His goal of dispensing Himself into man.
1.) The Word, the Logos Who was with God and was God incarnated. The Word became flesh.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him and apart from Him not one thin came into being which has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:1-3_
Now the first becomming:
"And the Word BECAME flesh and tabernacled among us . . . " (v.14)
2.) The incarnated God lived thirty three and a half years on earth, died a redemptive death to reconciled men to God, rose in victorious resurrection and went through His second BECOMMING. He became a divine life imparting Spirit to give God as a Person INTO man's tripartite being - spirit and soul and body.
"the last Adam BECAME a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
God the three-one uncreated and eternal God went through these two BECAMES to flow out of eternity into His universe, onto the earth and into man. This is His economical move to fulfill His eternal purpose.
@rajk999 saidBy his own reasoning, he is the enemy of Christ.
Sonship's God is Witness Lee. He does not believe in the true God of Israel, who sent His Son, Jesus to preach to people and tell them who his friends are and who his enemies are. Had he believed in Christ he would have preached the Gospel of Christ, which is what Jesus preached. His teachings around here has virtually nothing of Christ except talk, and they are totally void ...[text shortened]... ed, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)[/i]
@rajk999 said<<The enemies of Christ are the sonship type, the PB1022 type and Kj types who encourage disobedience to the commandments, and they will reap damnation >>
Sonship's God is Witness Lee. He does not believe in the true God of Israel, who sent His Son, Jesus to preach to people and tell them who his friends are and who his enemies are. Had he believed in Christ he would have preached the Gospel of Christ, which is what Jesus preached. His teachings around here has virtually nothing of Christ except talk, and they are totally void ...[text shortened]... ed, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)[/i]
Jesus Christ said the two greatest commandments were to love God and love your neighbor. You love neither.
Jesus Christ preached the importance of love because from a changed heart - a heart of flesh, not a heart of stone - will flow the fruit of the Spirit and good works.
You have a heart of stone and no love for God or love for your neighbor.
You’re bearing false witness when you say I or anyone else on here encourages disobedience to the commandments.
You reject Jesus Christ’s deity and you reject what He said were the two greatest commandments.
And you repeatedly bear false witness in this forum and thereby break even the lesser commandments.
@sonship saidYou are a man of God, sonship.
The Importance of the Trinity is seen in the steps God went through to reach His goal of dispensing Himself into man.
1.) The Word, the Logos Who was with God and was God incarnated. The Word became flesh.
[b]"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through ...[text shortened]... universe, onto the earth and into man. This is His economical move to fulfill His eternal purpose.
Don’t let the atheists and Christ deniers get you down.
I appreciate your posts and I think a lot of other people on here do as well.
Some people - atheists and Christ deniers - just want to spend their time trying to tear Christians down and weaken their faith.
These are sick people - sick in their heart and sick in their head. They need the love of Jesus, but they’re too proud to see themselves for what they are and admit it.
God bless you, brother.
@PB1022
Thankyou brother. God bless you and your labors here.
I enjoy reading your posts because I love the word of God. I especially love that the word will not return void. It will accomplish something in the hearts of those who hear.
Unfortunately, it will harden some.
But others it will plant within them the seeds of faith.
Praise the Lord on the Spirituality Forum we can read and write the words of
God's book - the Bible.
The Apostle John wrote that the antichrist type of teacher would deny that Jesus is the Christ. Yet if you read carefully his waring., this is equivalent to the denial of "the Father and the Son".
"Who is the liar if not he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist who denies the Father and the Son." (1 John 2:22)
I think my interpretation is fair of this verse.
1.) The one who denies that Jesus is the Christ is a LIAR.
2.) The next part of the sentence could have two possible meanings I think;
a.) The one denying that Jesus is the Christ in ADDITION to this denies the Father and the Son.
b.) By denying Jesus is the Anointed, the Christ they necessarily in CONJUNCTION deny the Father and the Son.
c. By denying the Father and the Son they necessarily deny that Jesus is the Christ.
Because many false teachers desire to prey on unsuspecting Christians they will use the vocabulary which gives the impression that they believe in the Christ and in the Father and the Son. But when their "dictionary" is examined you find that the words do not mean what the New Testament intended.
Ie. The Son of the Father is to some teachers an archangel to the Creator.
But why would John say this one is a liar ?
Perhaps because they KNOW that they are adding their words or changing
the teaching of Christ and the apostles. In their conscience they know they are
baring false witness.
Cont. below
@ghost-of-a-duke said
By his own reasoning, he is the enemy of Christ.
By his own reasoning, he is the enemy of Christ.
You deny God exists. This is a denial of the Father and the Son.
This you deny while pretending to be a defender of the Christian gospel.
So you are doubly a deceptive.
"This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son"
Antichrist is means INSTEAD of Christ.
You offer a no God, no Son of God of course, and no anointed of God of course.
All this is instead of Christ.
And it is certain in the opposing sense - anti - Christ.
"Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also." (v.23)
John is saying that those denying God has a Son, Jesus Christ, do not have God.
Of course you know you don't have God because you don't think God exists.
At least that is you position before us all here.
You want to defend Galveston because you think I am being unfair to him.
But jolly, amiable Galveston himself denies "the Father and the Son".
By his dictionary the Father and the Son means something else. It means the Creator Jehovah and the archangel Michael Jehovah's created spirit creature.
At least he believes that God exists. But by denying the Son how can he HAVE the Father ? "Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who confesses the Son has the Father also."
Ask him yourself if he has God. He may believe objectively that there is God , Jehovah. But I don't think that he will admit to having God in fellowship in communion and in an personal subjective way.
What he has is what he thinks Jehovah want him to do - be a witness. That is be a witness by doing Jehovah to "favor" of fighting against Christ as the Son of God. The vocabulary cloaks this intention. But the essential of the teaching he propagates betrays its reality - he denies "the Father and the Son"