Originally posted by KellyJayNO.
Yes
Kelly
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
Originally posted by UllrIs it any wonder that Christians are the most selfish, greedy, worldly, crooked people on earth. Their religion preaches that its ok to sin becuase they will not be cast into the lake of fire.
So in other words you can be the most vile, loathsome, evil ...... ahh never mind. This is nonsense.
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Originally posted by Pudgenik
There are millions of souls in purgatory, and they are thankful of it. Many are protestants who never believed in it.
We are not in the "millennial kingdom"
Pudgenik,
Of course we are not now yet in the millennial kingdom.
What makes you think I was advocating that we were?
What places in the Bible would you refer me to to prove that there are presently people in Purgatory ?
Is that something that I would have to consult the Apocrypha to see ?
I mean would that be something to read about in one of the books that talks about the child Jesus turning clay pigeons into real ones or a giant wooden cross marching out of the tomb of Jesus ?
I am opened to see your evidence from the 66 books of the Hebrew and New Testament canon. Please identify where your other evidence is located.
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Originally posted by Rajk999This might be too long for you to read carefully as it needs.
Is it any wonder that Christians are the most selfish, greedy, worldly, crooked people on earth. Their religion preaches that its ok to sin becuase they will not be cast into the lake of fire.
But ...
Actually, according to the seven letters to the churches, it appears to be possible that some Christians could be hurt temporarily by the second death.
Before I present the proof of this to you, I remind you of my discussions of First Corinthians chapter three which definitely told us that some believers would be saved "yet so as through fire".
I told you that we should consider that verse open ended and not assume that God has only a skinny scope of possible remedies for the disobedient Christian.
Based upon the wide range of possible disciplines that the Father could exercise over His children keeping them saved forever, yet disciplining them as sons, some on the very severe side could be hurt of the second death .
Now to the passage. Jesus Christ speaking to the church and Smyrna specifically and all the churches generally:
"Do not fear the things that you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison that you may be tried, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall by no means be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:10,11)
All the rewards spoken of in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are related not to eternity but to the church age or the millennial kingdom.
All the disciplines are related to the church age or the millennial kingdom.
The promise for the overcoming believer not to be hurt by the second death is a promise given in a negative fashion. God will not do something to the Christian. The strong implication therefore is that it is conceivable that He WOULD do thus and such to a Christian, temporarily.
Therefore I submit that one could be saved from eternal perdition but be temporarily "hurt" by the lake of fire. To be "hurt" is not to be destroyed forever. But it is to be given a taste that one may be disciplined.
The promise to the Christian to not be hurt by the second death is similar to God telling the escaped Hebrews from Egypt that He would reward them by NOT placing upon them any of the punishments He placed on Egypt. Yet it is a conditional promise.
Originally posted by sonshipYou claim that ALL who accept Christ with their mouth will be saved.
This might be too long for you to read carefully as it needs.
But ...
Actually, according to the seven letters to the churches, it appears to be possible that some Christians could be hurt temporarily by the second death.
Before I present the proof of this to you, I remind you of my discussions of [b]First Corinthians chapter three which definit ...[text shortened]... OT placing upon them any of the punishments He placed on Egypt. Yet it is a conditional promise.[/b]
So you are saying ALL.
I am showing where the Bible says that SOME who accept Christ will not get forgiveness. They will therefore not get eternal life... SOME.
SOME will pass through fire, Yes.. NOT ALL.
There are SOME who will accept Christ with their mouth and NOT BE GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE. They would not be saved.
You should try to accept all that is preached in the Bible.
Originally posted by FMFAll of us are sinners, every single one. I'm telling you God is attempting to
I am afraid you have dealt with the question by simply introducing something that you then don't explain. Here it is again: So if it's not "sin" that separates "believers" who are saved from "believers" who are not saved, what does separate them? If it's about how much "God's Spirit" you have, what is the cut off point? So if it's "God's Spirit" that separates " ...[text shortened]... who have more "God's Spirit" than you are [b]more likely to avoid burning in hell than you?[/b]
save us all, a way has been made for all of us to come to Him, but not
everyone will come to God under the conditions that God has laid out so we
can be saved from our sins. You have been attempting at first to try and
make us look like we are different when it comes to those that believe in
God and those that do not.
Sin is what separates us from God, so God calls us we either acknowledge
Him and follow Him or we do not. Jesus has made a way for anyone no
matter how bad they were to come to God, Jesus' righteousness, God grace
is greater than our sin. So what happens to those that reject such a great
salvation they will stand before God in their own righteousness.
God's Kingdom is what we belong to when we come to Him, He is our Lord
and King. The door is wide open for us to be saved, God will save those that
come to Him as Lord and King, and He will lead us and guide us through our
lives. It is to God's glory not anything that has to do with us, I'm not any
thing special above any other, I'm just a sinner that came to Jesus Christ,
because I know I need to.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayThe Bible says this :
.. God will save those that come to Him as Lord and King,
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Those that KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS will be saved.
Those that simply perform mouth worship will not be saved.
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Originally posted by Rajk999You are twisting my words, anyone's whose sins have been covered by
You saying yes to this :
"all sin has been covered by Christ", "sinners" do not get punished for their "sins" as long as they "belong to Him".
Is exactly the same as saying that it is ok to sin.
Christ has all of their sins covered. Please do not twist my words into things
that I have not said, it is deceitful.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayTherefore for those whose sins are covered by Christ it is ok from them to continue on sinning.
You are twisting my words, anyone's who sins have been covered by Christ
has all of their sins covered. Please do not twist my words into things that
I have not said, it is deceitful.
Kelly
