Originally posted by KellyJayIs that all the options you can see?
You are again twisting my words into things I have not said. Unless you
are saying no one has their sins covered by Jesus Christ?
Kelly
ALL or NONE?
What about some. Some of our sins are covered.
The Bible is clear on that.
The passage I quoted says just that.
There comes a point when there is no more repentance and forgiveness for sins.
You cannot continue on sinning and expect to get eternal life.
You people are preaching garbage.
Originally posted by Rajk999You are the only one of us arguing that point.
Is that all the options you can see?
ALL or NONE?
What about some. Some of our sins are covered.
The Bible is clear on that.
The passage I quoted says just that.
There comes a point when there is no more repentance and forgiveness for sins.
You cannot continue on sinning and expect to get eternal life.
You people are preaching garbage.
My point was and is that Jesus' is the reason we are saved, His blood
covers our sins. If you want to say that isn't true, then continue as you
are. If you are following Christ, if you have made Jesus you Lord and serve
Him, where do you see fault in that?
Kelly
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Originally posted by Rajk999This post will be too long for you to read Rajk999. Your short attention span may not be able to get it.
You claim that ALL who accept Christ with their mouth will be saved.
So you are saying ALL.
I am showing where the Bible says that SOME who accept Christ will not get forgiveness. They will therefore not get eternal life... SOME.
SOME will pass through fire, Yes.. NOT ALL.
There are SOME who will accept Christ with their mouth and NOT BE GIVEN ET ...[text shortened]... AL LIFE. They would not be saved.
You should try to accept all that is preached in the Bible.
You claim that ALL who accept Christ with their mouth will be saved. So you are saying ALL.
It is a wonder that dealing with such theological quackery isn't enough to make anyone "joyless." I guess I'm suppose to make this sound funny now. But it really isn't funny.
It is the Scripture, NOT ME, ... the Scripture that says:
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Hm from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
That is what the clear apostolic instruction of the New Testament teaches. Don't blame me. I am simply quoting.
Once again because you may have forgotten already -
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation.
I am showing where the Bible says that SOME who accept Christ will not get forgiveness. They will therefore not get eternal life... SOME.
What the passage above says that whoever confesses with the mouth Jesus as Lord and believes in the heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead will be saved.
It does not say that God cannot perfect, adjust, discipline, or even punish as well as reward in some ways the ones who become His sons.
For the book of Hebrews tells us of God's scourging process with His own sons.
"And you have completely forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with SONS, 'My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when reproved by Him.
For whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every SON whom He receives.
It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with SONS. For what SON is there whom the father does not discipline ?
But if you are without discipline, of which all sons have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not SONS.
Furthermore we have had the fathers of our flesh as discipliners and we respected them; shall we not much more be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?
For they disciplined for a few days as it seemed good to them; but He, for what is profitable that we might partake of His holiness." (Hebrews 12:5-10)
Romans 10:9-13 does not say that God's hands are so tied that He cannot discipline those who have become His sons. That is the error that you and your erroneous school of interpretation want to impose.
Romans 10:9-13 assures the sinner how willing God is to save unto eternal life those who believe into Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:9-13 does not say that receiving the gift of eternal life is end all of a believer's relationship with God. And it does not mean that believers become instantly matured sons perfected in living simply because they confessed Jesus and believed in His resurrection.
This is just the erroneous interpretation that YOU wish to impose on Romans 10:9-13.
SOME will pass through fire, Yes.. NOT ALL.
Again, it is not ME who wrote that. I am only QUOTING the New Testament:
"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer lose, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:14,15)
That is not even my interpretation.
That is my QUOTATION.
" . .. he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
There is no argument. I assume "SOME" because the implication is that it is conditional.
Now my interpretation: The words "suffer loss ... saved, yet so as through fire" most certainly includes a wide range of possibilities at God's disposal. It would be foolish to think that a Judge as wise as God would not have just the appropriate remedy to dispense to the malady of a son of His who is in need.
And at the extreme severity side of this wide range, some saved yet so as through fire may be "hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11) .
Do not ask me about percentages. I have absolutely no idea about how many my "some" would mean.
There are SOME who will accept Christ with their mouth and NOT BE GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE. They would not be saved.
Let me bring you back to the Scripture once again. Not what I wrote. What Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
Perhaps you wish to change that to "you will [NOT] be saved".
But the word of God says "you will be saved."
Perhaps you wish to change it to say "you will not be possibly disciplined, scourged, corrected, denied a reward, or even punished temporarily."
That is not what it says. He shall be saved. And elsewhere in the whole plenary revelation of God, like the book of Hebrews , we see how God as a disciplining Father scourges every SON that comes to Him.
Originally posted by sonshipIts not my short attention span. Its the dozen or so times you 'assume' and say 'I think this is correct' or 'I believe this to be so'.
This post will be too long for you to read Rajk999. Your short attention span may not be able to get it.
You claim that ALL who accept Christ with their mouth will be saved. So you are saying ALL.
It is a wonder that dealing with such theological quackery isn't enough to make anyone "joyless." I guess I'm suppose to make this s ...[text shortened]... brews , we see how God as a disciplining Father scourges every SON that comes to Him.[/b]
Im not interested in your guess work. Christ words were clear.
Originally posted by sonshipsonship, you are a diligent and patient man.
This post will be too long for you to read Rajk999. Your short attention span may not be able to get it.
You claim that ALL who accept Christ with their mouth will be saved. So you are saying ALL.
It is a wonder that dealing with such theological quackery isn't enough to make anyone "joyless." I guess I'm suppose to make this s ...[text shortened]... brews , we see how God as a disciplining Father scourges every SON that comes to Him.[/b]
Originally posted by Rajk999It was and is a simple question.
Is that all the options you can see?
ALL or NONE?
What about some. Some of our sins are covered.
The Bible is clear on that.
The passage I quoted says just that.
There comes a point when there is no more repentance and forgiveness for sins.
You cannot continue on sinning and expect to get eternal life.
You people are preaching garbage.
Are all the sins of sinners clean when Jesus saves them?
Please, you were able to read a ton of stuff from my post that wasn't there,
how about answer the question that is!
Kelly
Originally posted by Rajk999Hmmm, interesting choice of words. Christians and their religion, are you not a Christian? Do you feel you are the most selfish, greedy, worldly, crooked of people on earth? gosh I hope not.
Is it any wonder that Christians are the most selfish, greedy, worldly, crooked people on earth. Their religion preaches that its ok to sin becuase they will not be cast into the lake of fire.
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Originally posted by sonshipprayer helps those in purgatory - (in responce to your comment of "indulgences" ) to go though the purification faster. It works best if you ask those in purgatory to help someone else, or pray for someone else.If you are familiar with purgatory, I've been there a lot. The deeper parts of it are close to hell.
Is this serious ?
There is no Roman Catholic Purgatory where souls are today being purified in a place of punishment. I am pretty sure of that.
The verses that RCC used to teach Purgatory are verses pertaining not to punishment dur ...[text shortened]... her God's dealing with some punished Christians during the millennial kingdom.
Am I right ?
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Originally posted by KellyJaywhen Jesus saves them, yes. But do you even know what you are saying? If you are speaking of Jesus on the cross, the answer is no. If you are speaking of Jesus bringing them to heaven, well of course they are saved.
"Are all the sins of sinners clean when Jesus saves them? "
Why do i say no, when we speak of Jesus dieing on the cross. He died for our sins after all. And yes he did that, but we have a roll in this too. We must repent of our sins to enter heaven. We must receive Jesus to receive His gift. I am not trying to be sarcastic, that only invites more of the same. So is this plane enough for you?
Originally posted by KellyJayVery Good, Excellent! God's grace is deeper than anyone comprehends. Purgatory is God's grace. The prayers that people say for the souls in purgatory, is also God's grace. It is through God's grace, that after dieing in this world, souls learn of God, Jesus the Holy Spirit, the Trinity. It is God's grace that seeks His children, always! God's grace - love, mercy, compassion, it is the essence of God.
All of us are sinners, every single one. I'm telling you God is attempting to
save us all, a way has been made for all of us to come to Him, but not
everyone will come to God under the conditions that God has laid out so we
can be saved from our sins. You have been attempting at first to try and
make us look like we are different when it comes to those ...[text shortened]... above any other, I'm just a sinner that came to Jesus Christ,
because I know I need to.
Kelly
Originally posted by sonship[b]There are millions of souls in purgatory, and they are thankful of it. Many are protestants who never believed in it.
We are not in the "millennial kingdom"
Pudgenik,
Of course we are not now yet in the millennial kingdom.
What makes you think I was advocating that we were?
What places in the Bible woul ...[text shortened]... s of the Hebrew and New Testament canon. Please identify where your other evidence is located.[/b]Our Father who is in heaven,
Holy is your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us,
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil, Amen.
This is the response the Lord told me to give you.
Originally posted by PudgenikI've heard of purgatory, but don 't believe in it. I don't think it is based upon
Very Good, Excellent! God's grace is deeper than anyone comprehends. Purgatory is God's grace. The prayers that people say for the souls in purgatory, is also God's grace. It is through God's grace, that after dieing in this world, souls learn of God, Jesus the Holy Spirit, the Trinity. It is God's grace that seeks His children, always! God's grace - love, mercy, compassion, it is the essence of God.
anything in scripture. I do believe God has an open door right now for His
mercy and grace where we can be saved. When we leave this place or Jesus
returns and God ends this place that door is shut.
Kelly