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    14 Jan '18 15:275 edits
    Seems like many Christians believe some variation of the following:
    Is believing in Jesus enough to be saved?

    Yes, believing in Jesus is enough to be saved...

    So, believing in Jesus means you believe that he is God and flesh (Colossians 2:9). In addition, you must believe the gospel (Mark 1:15) that is defined as the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)...

    We are to have a faithful, independent trust in the work of Christ upon the cross who cleansed us from our sins. We don't just have mental acknowledgment that Jesus lived and died on the cross. We not only believe that, but we also trust in the sin sacrifice that Jesus made on that cross...

    There are many groups that falsely teach that in order to be saved from your sins, you must believe in God and do good things and/or not do bad things. This is false because we are justified (declared righteous before God) by faith (Romans 3:28; 5:1), not by works (Romans 4:1-5; Ephesians 2:8-9)...

    Therefore, belief in Jesus is enough to be saved, but you must believe that Jesus is God and flesh, and your belief must be a trustful act of dependence upon Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. Only then is belief in Jesus sufficient to save.

    https://carm.org/is-believing-in-jesus-enough-to-be-saved

    Those who do believe as above (or some variation thereof) are given salvation.

    Those who do not believe as above (or some variation thereof) are not given salvation.

    The result is that this is the only sin that God cannot forgive.

    How is this not an incredibly perverse conception of God?
  2. Standard memberapathist
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    15 Jan '18 06:32
    Hey, thx for speaking for god. I suppose you get extra credit.
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    15 Jan '18 21:172 edits
    Originally posted by @apathist
    Hey, thx for speaking for god. I suppose you get extra credit.
    Not sure how this logically follows, but okay.

    Do you not find incredibly perverse a conception of God wherein God can forgive every imaginable atrocity - serially murdering and torturing others, serially raping children, etc. - but cannot forgive an individual for not believing that "that Jesus is God and flesh" or not having "a faithful, independent trust in the work of Christ upon the cross who cleansed us from our sins"?
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    15 Jan '18 23:42
    Quoting Jesus from Mark 3

    28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
  5. Territories Unknown
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    16 Jan '18 01:50
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Seems like many Christians believe some variation of the following:
    [quote][b]Is believing in Jesus enough to be saved?


    Yes, believing in Jesus is enough to be saved...

    So, believing in Jesus means you believe that he is God and flesh (Colossians 2:9). In addition, you must believe the gospel (Mark 1:15) that is defined as the death, burial, ...[text shortened]... e only sin that God cannot forgive.

    How is this not an incredibly perverse conception of God?[/b]
    Perverse.
    In comparison to what?
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    16 Jan '18 08:59
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    Perverse.
    In comparison to what?
    A religion where non-believers are not divinely punished for all eternity in the fires of hell.
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    16 Jan '18 12:59
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    A religion where non-believers are not divinely punished for all eternity in the fires of hell.
    So: in comparison to the myriad scenarios man can imagine, each an allegedly superior upgrade to the scenario detailed in the Bible.

    For all their genius and in spite of the overwhelming accomplishment the Bible achieves, both in breadth of depth and scope of influence, one wonders if the talent and effort may have been put to better use in order to affect a more palatable end-user experience.

    I mean, really!
    Can He really be God if He didn't anticipate how far modern man's capacity for compassion and desired states exceeded His own mishmash of untenable expectations and unreasonable standards of perfection?
    Know your audience!
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    16 Jan '18 13:38
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    So: in comparison to the myriad scenarios man can imagine, each an allegedly superior upgrade to the scenario detailed in the Bible.

    For all their genius and in spite of the overwhelming accomplishment the Bible achieves, both in breadth of depth and scope of influence, one wonders if the talent and effort may have been put to better use in order to a ...[text shortened]... ishmash of untenable expectations and unreasonable standards of perfection?
    Know your audience!
    If God knew his audience he would have written a better book.
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    16 Jan '18 14:17
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    If God knew his audience he would have written a better book.
    Thanks for the Reader's Digest condensed version of what I wrote.

    The person who claims a better book could have been written has either:
    a) never cracked open the book; or
    b) never been cracked open by the book

    Fortunately for either, even a person completely ignorant of the Bible can listen to the extensive work done by others in ferreting out all of the amazing intricacies and mind-blowing coherence of the collection, and benefit from their efforts.

    What the Bible represents in the history of literature--- without even considering its impact--- is nothing short of supernatural.

    It is overwhelming to the mind's furthest imaginations how otherworldly that Bible is.
  10. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    16 Jan '18 14:52
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    Thanks for the Reader's Digest condensed version of what I wrote.

    The person who claims a better book could have been written has either:
    a) never cracked open the book; or
    b) never been cracked open by the book

    Fortunately for either, even a person completely ignorant of the Bible can listen to the extensive work done by others in ferreting out a ...[text shortened]... ural.

    It is overwhelming to the mind's furthest imaginations how otherworldly that Bible is.
    Does that synopsis include the Old Testament, or just the warm and fuzzy Gospels?

    I have 'cracked open' and studied the bible no less than you have, so I think we can rule out option A. - And we can likewise rule out option B, as a book of questionable and inconsistent morality, imbued with fear mongering and godly abominations falls short of 'cracking me open.'

    In truth, there are more inspiring books out there.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Jan '18 14:53
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    In truth, there are more inspiring books out there.
    I thoroughly enjoyed John Ralston Saul's 'Voltaire's Bastards'.
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    16 Jan '18 15:40
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Quoting Jesus from Mark 3

    28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 for they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”
    For those who believe as in the OP, the logical result is something very different - something very perverse.
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    16 Jan '18 15:45
    Originally posted by @freakykbh
    Perverse.
    In comparison to what?
    How is a conception of God wherein God can forgive every imaginable atrocity - serially murdering and torturing others, serially raping children, etc. - but cannot forgive an individual for not believing that "that Jesus is God and flesh" or not having "a faithful, independent trust in the work of Christ upon the cross who cleansed us from our sins" not incredibly perverse?

    People believe in such a conception of God only because it is so self-serving to do so.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    16 Jan '18 18:53
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    How is a conception of God wherein God can forgive every imaginable atrocity - serially murdering and torturing others, serially raping children, etc. - but cannot forgive an individual for not believing that "that Jesus is God and flesh" or not having "a faithful, independent trust in the work of Christ upon the cross who cleansed us from our sins" not ...[text shortened]... erse?

    People believe in such a conception of God only because it is so self-serving to do so.
    Jesus was clear about who enters the Kingdom of God but those who are to lazy to do what is required will always find alternative doctrines. I doubt they even believe all the nonsense they write.
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    16 Jan '18 19:37
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    For those who believe as in the OP, the logical result is something very different - something very perverse.
    I agree.

    Saying that you believe in a name Jesus does not equal salvation. Jesus tells us this.
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