27 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwMost of the time I've heard such questions, it's been in the context of someone asserting that "The universe must have come from somewhere, so it God must be the creator."
I've heard the question asked many times, 'where did God come from', or 'who created God'?
The question assumes that God came from somewhere or had a beginning.
My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal being, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
The problem is that if the universe "must have" come from somewhere, then under the same line of reasoning, God "must have" come from somewhere. If there is no "must have" for God, then there is no "must have" for the universe either.
So most of the time it's in an attempt to point out these deficiencies which unfortunately somehow goes over the heads of most who contend that "The universe must have come from somewhere, so it God must be the creator."
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"If there is no "must have" for God, then there is no "must have" for the universe either. "
Most of the time I've heard such questions, it's been in the context of "The universe must have come from somewhere, so it God must be the creator."
The problem is that if the universe "must have" come from somewhere, then under the same line of reasoning, God "must have" come from somewhere. If there is no "must have" for God, then there is no "must h ...[text shortened]... hat "The universe must have come from somewhere, so it God must be the creator."
Quite a leap here don't you think? Why must that be true, we know
in this universe things begin and end, exactly why would that apply
to God?
Kelly
27 Sep 09
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayNot really.
"If there is no "must have" for God, then there is no "must have" for the universe either. "
Quite a leap here don't you think? Why must that be true, we know
in this universe things begin and end, exactly why would that apply
to God?
Kelly
If someone can wrap their mind around the idea that God "just is", they can wrap their mind around the idea that the universe "just is". Excepting, of course, those steeped in delusion because of a deeply vested interest in protecting their belief system.
Keep in mind the following question from the OP:
"My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal being, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?"
The answer is that it isn't. But then, neither is it difficult for the universe.
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by josephwProbably because to have such qualities would put it outside of this universe's spatio-temporal nature (assuming this universe is finite and had a beginning) and as such it would be impossible for us to know anything about such a being.
I've heard the question asked many times, 'where did God come from', or 'who created God'?
The question assumes that God came from somewhere or had a beginning.
My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal being, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by josephwMy question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal universe, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
I've heard the question asked many times, 'where did God come from', or 'who created God'?
The question assumes that God came from somewhere or had a beginning.
My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal being, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
You see, two can play at that game.
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI also believe many birds can fly that does not mean cows can, you are
Not really.
If someone can wrap their mind around the idea that God "just is", they can wrap their mind around the idea that the universe "just is". Excepting, of course, those steeped in delusion because of a deeply vested interest in protecting their belief system.
Keep in mind the following question from the OP:
"My question is this. Why is the ...[text shortened]... and?"
The answer is that it isn't. But then, neither is it difficult for the universe.
comparing apples and oranges, you are comparing the creator to the
created, and saying one rule fits both and that isn't the case and there
isn't any reason to even compare the two.
Kelly
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by rwingettIf, as the Goddists profess, there was a time that there was God and nothing else, then it may be that God and the Universe are one and the same. Does this mean that "God" is expanding and we are just a tiny part of God ?
My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal universe, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
You see, two can play at that game.
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27 Sep 09
I think a more interesting question is where did the concepts of beginning or ending come from? Aren't they an artifact of our existence? Can you perceive anything outside of your current existence? Can you imagine even the span of your own lifetime? 2,049,840,000 seconds (give or take) - so many but so few. Can you perceive less than a second? At a certain atomic level time no longer has meaning. Can you imagine that? Hawking said that to ask what came before the universe is like asking how you can go further north when you are standing at the north pole. Time itself began with the universe. "Timeless" is beyond the classification of time - not time stretching limitless to an unbounded horizon from an unbounded past. Can you imagine that? Nothing is obvious except that there is room for a lot more thinking about time and the universe - but so little time.
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackWell I've seen the birth and death of people I know, for me that is
I think a more interesting question is where did the concepts of beginning or ending come from? Aren't they an artifact of our existence? Can you perceive anything outside of your current existence? Can you imagine even the span of your own lifetime? 2,049,840,000 seconds (give or take) - so many but so few. Can you perceive less than a second? At a cert ...[text shortened]... that there is room for a lot more thinking about time and the universe - but so little time.
without a doubt a beginning and end. Those concepts are much easier
to grasp than the eternal.
Kelly
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by josephwMy counter question is - why is the idea of an eternal universe so difficult to understand?
I've heard the question asked many times, 'where did God come from', or 'who created God'?
The question assumes that God came from somewhere or had a beginning.
My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal being, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"The answer is that it isn't. But then, neither is it difficult for the universe."
Not really.
If someone can wrap their mind around the idea that God "just is", they can wrap their mind around the idea that the universe "just is". Excepting, of course, those steeped in delusion because of a deeply vested interest in protecting their belief system.
Keep in mind the following question from the OP:
"My question is this. Why is the ...[text shortened]... and?"
The answer is that it isn't. But then, neither is it difficult for the universe.
We're talking about two different things here. God, and the universe. They are not synonymous.
One is material, the other spiritual. Placing the value of eternal onto matter simultaneously with a living being is more difficult. imo
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by StarrmanCertainly beyond our finite ability to know everything about such a being, but not that one exists, or some qualities of one.
Probably because to have such qualities would put it outside of this universe's spatio-temporal nature (assuming this universe is finite and had a beginning) and as such it would be impossible for us to know anything about such a being.
27 Sep 09
Originally posted by rwingettBasically because of the nature of the two. One being Spirit, the other material.
My question is this. Why is the concept or idea of an eternal universe, without beginning or end, so difficult to understand?
You see, two can play at that game.
When I think about it, you know, picture the idea in my head that the physical universe has existed forever, I lose sight of it somehow. Probably because the material is ever changing.
On the other hand when I think of a being as eternal, I get the impression of something unchanging, in a steady state, something more in alignment with the idea of the infinite.