Originally posted by FreakyKBHand ,oh btw,
While your goading may work on lesser intellects, you will not find a willing patsy in me. If you lack the necessary constitution to apply critical thinking to what you have learned thus far regarding ancient history, no amount of information will assist you.
Aleph Lamed means Ox Goad and is pronounced the same as El
as I said in my first post.
4 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI found this thread very interesting...all the sites posted of ancient texts that have been discovered, are extremely fascinating reading...the similarities of some to be quite startling, over time legends do have changes it happens as they are passed down from one generation to another....pieces are missed out or omitted.
Is that why you're here: to impress others? More sad than previously held, you are.
Freaky, all you have done is put down and ridicule, for whatever reason....it would have been better to state your views or your opinions on this subject so that we could all share in both sides, I dont think anyone is here in the forums to impress....this is conversing about subjects that others could possibly be interested in...seeing different sides.
Cooperation seems simple, working together toward a common goal for the benefit of all involved. amazingly it can be quite challenging, finding a balance... it seems most people would choose the more peaceful path.... we can gain greater perspective by trying to understand one another's point of view, all this is easier when we let go of the necessity to be right and to call others wrong... and believe that there is a solution that benefits all involved, not just one side.
Peace IS the Way
gil
Originally posted by gentlegilThank you.
I found this thread very interesting...all the sites posted of ancient texts that have been discovered, are extremely fascinating reading...the similarities of some to be quite startling, over time legends do have changes it happens as they are passed down from one generation to another....pieces are missed out or omitted.
Freaky, all you have done is ...[text shortened]... there is a solution that benefits all involved, not just one side.
Peace IS the Way
gil
Originally posted by gentlegilWhy can't we all just get along, right?
I found this thread very interesting...all the sites posted of ancient texts that have been discovered, are extremely fascinating reading...the similarities of some to be quite startling, over time legends do have changes it happens as they are passed down from one generation to another....pieces are missed out or omitted.
Freaky, all you have done is ...[text shortened]... there is a solution that benefits all involved, not just one side.
Peace IS the Way
gil
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you haven't been privvy to the goings on within this particular Spirituality forum. The truth is, silly arguments are brought to this forum on a consistent basis, thereby 'ruining' any chance the forum might have of fulfilling its intended purpose.
Perhaps there should be another forum, one dedicated to the debate over God's existence. Unfortunately, the so-called atheists and agnostics would tire rather rapidly of their bold statements and back-slapping and they would inevitably end up here, picking their red-herring fights but never finishing the same.
Their modus operandi is always the same:
1. start an argument based on half-baked ideas, and either:
2. a. run at first resistance, or
2. b. force the argument to get bogged down in an absurd semantics wrestling match.
It's difficult to hit an opponent who refuses to stay in the ring.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHWhat do you suppose the "intended purpose" of the Spirituality Forum was?
Why can't we all just get along, right?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you haven't been privvy to the goings on within this particular Spirituality forum. The truth is, silly arguments are brought to this forum on a consistent basis, thereby 'ruining' any chance the forum might have of fulfilling its intended purpose.
Perhaps there ...[text shortened]... tics wrestling match.
It's difficult to hit an opponent who refuses to stay in the ring.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou are guilty of doing what you accuse others of doing.
Why can't we all just get along, right?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you haven't been privvy to the goings on within this particular Spirituality forum. The truth is, silly arguments are brought to this forum on a consistent basis, thereby 'ruining' any chance the forum might have of fulfilling its intended purpose.
Perhaps there ...[text shortened]... tics wrestling match.
It's difficult to hit an opponent who refuses to stay in the ring.
Now name your sources.
Stop the inane smoke and mirror game you've been playing.
Your god is a sham, nothing more than a caricature designed to scare the israelites into line. An amalgamation of Sumerian gods, nothing more.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHand to answer your M.O. or trying to hide sources by swamping the thread:
Why can't we all just get along, right?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you haven't been privvy to the goings on within this particular Spirituality forum. The truth is, silly arguments are brought to this forum on a consistent basis, thereby 'ruining' any chance the forum might have of fulfilling its intended purpose.
Perhaps there ...[text shortened]... tics wrestling match.
It's difficult to hit an opponent who refuses to stay in the ring.
http://history-world.org/sargon_the_great.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/2300sargon1.html
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/canaan.html
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/
http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/links/texts.htm
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/index.html
http://ragz-international.com/ebla.htm
http://www.syriagate.com/Syria/about/cities/Idlib/ebla.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/stc/index.htm
http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/canaan-gods.htm
http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/edition2/etcslbynumb.php
http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer/
http://ragz-international.com/Sumerianwords1.htm
http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch01.htm
oh and I left this off before:
"The motivation for the flood, human sinfulness, was a distinctive contribution of Hebrew culture, but the motif itself was already an ancient one in the Near East when the Hebrew account was finally written down. The earliest version is from Sumer. In it, Anu tires of the constant tumult and noise of the human population and angrily decides to destroy all humans. Enki, the Sumerian god of wisdom, realizes that this is a grave error, since it is the toil of humans for the gods that permits the gods to live a life of liesure. He takes it upon himself to inform the king of the city of Shurippak, one Ziusudra, of the impending flood and to tell him to build an ark so that he and his family will survive. On the advise of Enki, Ziusudra tells his people that the gods are angry with him and that to save them he plans to build a ship and leave Erech so that the city will be safe. Thus deceived, the people help Ziusudra build his ark and stock it with domestic animals. But when the flood comes, it is Ziusudra who survives. When the ark lands, he offers a sacrifice to the gods, and Anu, smelling the smoke of the burnt offering, realizes that some have survived. Enki admits that it is he who saved Ziusudra and his family, but by that time Anu had realized the rashness of his having tried to kill their human servants. In Anu's admission of his own error, we find an explanation for a Bible passage that has long perplexed those of the Judeo-Christian tradition which views God as perfect and unchanging--his recognition the the flood has done nothing to change the sinful nature of his creatures and his apparant change of heart about having sent the flood: "And when Yahweh smelled the pleasing odor, Yahweh said in his heart, 'I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from yourth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done" (Genesis 8:21). This verse is nothing more than a survival of the older version of the story, one told when the gods themselves were sometimes petty and impulsive and in which Anu did, indeed, realize that he had behaved foolishly."
http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/flood.htm
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Originally posted by frogstompAs far as I see it here are the possibilities. Tell me if you disagree and why. To begin with we both agree that author of Genesis has his roots originating from the Sumerian culture.
oh and I left this off before:
"The motivation for the flood, human sinfulness, was a distinctive contribution of Hebrew culture, but the motif itself was already an ancient one in the Near East when the Hebrew account was finally written down. The earliest version is from Sumer. In it, Anu tires of the constant tumult and noise of the human pop did, indeed, realize that he had behaved foolishly."
http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/flood.htm
(The first possibilities are if the Bible is incorrect)
1. You are correct in assuming that the author of Genesis "copied" the story line of the great flood from the Sumerian culture. This is because Abraham came from a Sumerian culture that influenced him. A great flood may have or may not have actually happened but probably did based on the number of ancient accounts of a great flood. The account is not 100% accurate and includes many myths, however. The author of Genesis then likewise contrives a similair story based on myth as well with some truth about a great flood.
2. The great flood story is 100% myth and Abraham merely came up with another version which influenced the Genesis account which is also 100% myth.
3. The Sumerian version of the Genesis stories or that of another culture were correct in content and not myth. All other accounts became myths spun off the correct stories. This assumption is based on the fact that their accounts were found first via archeology. Their gods were and are true gods. Its just a shame every one has run off and forgotten about them.
(The next possibility neither assumes the truth or myth of the Bible)
1. You are incorrect in assuming that the author of Genesis "copied" the story line of the great flood from the Sumerian culture. The author had no influences from the Sumerian culture and the similarities are mere coincidences. This is despite Abraham originating from the Sumerian culture. Abraham's descendants simply had no influence on the author of Genesis. I think we can both rule this out because other accounts such as the garden of Eden are also similiar and the statistical chances of these stories being so similiar and without a connection are not worth considering. However, it still is an assumption.
(The rest of the possibilities are if the Bible is 100% correct)
1. You are incorrect in assuming that the author of Genesis "copied" the story line of the great flood from the Sumerian culture. All ancient cultures knew the great flood story but only Abraham held to the true original oral tradition of the great flood and the worship of only one God that Noah held to as well. This true oral tradition was propelled from generation to generation by a small group of individuals who faithfully held to monotheism up until the author of the Genesis account. Those that chose not to follow monotheism and rebell from the one true God created myths about the true account as a result and subsequently worshiped other gods. Only the rebellious cultures and religions that worshiped other gods copied their accounts down on tablets of stone ect. as where Abrahams group only held to oral tradition up until the time of the writing of Genesis.
4. The author of Genesis was inspired by God to write the true account of the great flood, garden of Eden, ect. that had been jumbled over subsequent generations and cultures. The author was therefore not influenced by man but by God to write the accounts even though he may have known of similair myths about such stories. It is understandable that other ancient myths would correlate with the true story line due to the fact that all ancient cultures originated from the decendats of Noah. The descrepencies are understandable due to the possible passing down of wrong information based on human error, change in religious beliefs and theology, change in cultural norms ect. I personally hold to the later. I do believe Abraham worshiped only the one true God. I am not sure, however, that he knew all the facts concerning our origins. He may have known about the Sumerian versions of our origins, however, if he rejected idol worship I am sure he rejected the idols involvment in the stories regarding our origins as well.
Originally posted by whodeyYour 1st "1)" is closest but I do like the fact you raise some other similar myths in your 2nd "1)"
As far as I see it here are the possibilities. Tell me if you disagree and why. To begin with we both agree that author of Genesis has his roots originating from the Sumerian culture.
(The first possibilities are if the Bible is incorrect)
1. You are correct in assuming that the author of Genesis "copied" the story line of the great flood from the Su ...[text shortened]... I am sure he rejected the idols involvment in the stories regarding our origins as well.
You did leave off the tower and the ziggurats though.