The Ox Goad god

Originally posted by whodey
So God had nothing to do with Joshua or the founding of the Israelite nation? I hate to break it to ya, but they are still here. Show me any other culture and religion that has survived the tests of time as have the Jewish nation that everyone seems to hate. Your saying God has nothing to do with that?

God has nothing to do with any nation at all. Not then, not now and furthermore not ever.
And please don't beg the question like that , it's very unbecoming.

Originally posted by gentlegil
If Jesus wouldn't do it.... then HIS god wouldnt either!
He came to show us what we couldnt understand!

gil

I hate to break it to you, but Jesus is part of the Trinity. Jesus said that the Father and he were one. God was merely ushering in a period of grace through Christ.

Originally posted by frogstomp
And please don't beg the question like that , it's very unbecoming.[/b]

In other words, you can't answer it?

Originally posted by whodey
I hate to break it to you, but Jesus is part of the Trinity. Jesus said that the Father and he were one. God was merely ushering in a period of grace through Christ.

I hate to break it to you , but if Christ is god than the OT god is , being so foreign to Christ, proven false.

Originally posted by whodey
In other words, you can't answer it?

In other words stop using fallacious arguments.

Originally posted by frogstomp
I hate to break it to you , but if Christ is god than the OT god is , being so foreign to Christ, proven false.

I suppose that is why Christ referred to him every other sentence.

Originally posted by frogstomp
In other words stop using fallacious arguments.

In other words, you can't answer it?

Originally posted by whodey
I suppose that is why Christ referred to him every other sentence.

22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thanks for reminding me of this ,, seems like the OT god didn't tell the second one to Joshua, does it?
Give it up you silly man.

Originally posted by whodey
In other words, you can't answer it?

It's been answered by the Israelies themselves , by following not the laws of the torah. Although, the US had a great hand in creating and maintaining the nation of Israel I would choose to say that Israel is not the same thing as ancient Isreal.

staying out of world politics.

Originally posted by frogstomp
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thanks for reminding me of t ...[text shortened]... like the OT god didn't tell the second one to Joshua, does it?
Give it up you silly man.

I suppose Jesus chasing out the money changers in the temple with a whip seems like a contradiction of the love concept to you as well, no?

Originally posted by frogstomp
It's been answered by the Israelies themselves , by following not the laws of the torah. Although, the US had a great hand in creating and maintaining the nation of Israel I would choose to say that Israel is not the same thing as ancient Isreal.

staying out of world politics.

Nevertheless, the nation of Israel still exists despite all odds just as it was prophecied.

Originally posted by whodey
Nevertheless, the nation of Israel still exists despite all odds just as it was prophecied.

Oh jeez , get offa that self fulfilling prophecy crap.

Originally posted by whodey
I suppose Jesus chasing out the money changers in the temple with a whip seems like a contradiction of the love concept to you as well, no?

if the people that canonized the OT weren't doing the canonization under the watchful eye and direction of the military dictator of Rome, Constantine ,, maybe we'd have a better, more godly bible.

And whipping somebody's ass out of a temple isn't the same as murdering an entire civilization worth of people , now is it?

Originally posted by frogstomp
if the people that canonized the OT weren't doing the canonization under the watchful eye and direction of the military dictator of Rome, Constantine ,, maybe we'd have a better, more godly bible.

And whipping somebody's ass out of a temple isn't the same as murdering an entire civilization worth of people , now is it?

How about this verse. Matthew 8:28 "And when he was come to the other side unto the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way."
29. And, behold, they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? Art thou come hither to torment us before our time?"

In Revelation Jesus is represented as returning, not as a sacrificial lamb, but as a lion who will rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Or what about this verse? Matthew 11:12 Jesus said, "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

Sounds to me like old Constantine is up to his old tricks again with the old canonization ploy once again, no? Seriously though, does Jesus in these verses sound like someone you want to mess with? He was by no means a pacifist. His struggle, however, was a spiritual struggle. His fight was to see that the Fathers will was done. This sometimes includes physical violence as seen with the money changers. You are correct in that he did not kill them, however, this was not necessary at the time and was avoidable. If it is aviodable, it should be avoided. However, if the nation of Israel had never been founded, the Messiah would not have come to save the world. The violence done to bring him into the world was a spiritual violence as well.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Oh jeez , get offa that self fulfilling prophecy crap.

Hard to take huh?