The Presidency

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is hard to do when I am a conservative and he is a liberal and stands
for so many things I oppose. He hasn't been as liberal as I was affraid, but
that is probably due to the conservatives in congress that are holding him
back. I would be afraid what would happen if he were a dictator. I can not
understand how he could have been given the Nobel Peace Prize.

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That is hard to do when I am a conservative and he is a liberal and stands
for so many things I oppose. He hasn't been as liberal as I was affraid, but
that is probably due to the conservatives in congress that are holding him
back. I would be afraid what would happen if he were a dictator. I can not
understand how he could have been given the Nobel Peace Prize.
=====================================

Are you a Christian first or are you a conservative first ?
Am I a Christian first or a liberal first ?
I think these are the questions we have to ask ourselves before the Lord.

If you are a Christian first, then I would think you would set aside your philosophy of life and walk in the Spirit. And I believe that Spirit is praying for those who are in power and in high positions.

My ultimate trust is not in what man can do ... ANY man regardless of his politics.

Maybe if I PRAY for George Bush or Barack Obama or any person in a high position, God would give that governor wisdom to govern how best for the furtherance of God's will on earth.

Maybe one day I will come before the Lord and he will play back a recording of how I cursed and complained about a leader who was involved in some sex scandel. The Lord may say, " Had you PRAYED for him on that night My Spirit moved you to PRAY, rather than curse him, he might have been shielded from that temptation because of prayers on his behalf. "

The gospel says that God will not only answer prayer, but He will "REPAY" prayer or reward prayer:

"But you, when you pray, enter into your private room, and shut your door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you." (Matt. 6:6)

Here is is not only a matter of the Father's answer. It is also a matter of the Father "repaying" the prayer or rewarding the prayer.

So expect that in the kingdom age, some grumblers will go unrewarded. Yet some obedient Christians will receive reward because they PRAYED for someone who perhaps they personally had political differences with.

And I think it was no accident that Paul wrote Romans chapter 13 while the Christian church was under the worst possible ruler of the Roman Empire.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===============================
That is hard to do when I am a conservative and he is a liberal and stands
for so many things I oppose. He hasn't been as liberal as I was affraid, but
that is probably due to the conservatives in congress that are holding him
back. I would be afraid what would happen if he were a dictator. I can not
understan ...[text shortened]... 13 while the Christian church was under the worst possible ruler of the Roman Empire.

Of course, we can pray that God will allow the Holy Spirit to influence
him to do the right thing. But Don't forget Satan is a spirit with strong
influence, too. So besides, praying, we must also do something that
will make an influence on him and others, too. As the body of Christ,
we are not to just pray and then set back and hope for the best. We
must put on the whole armour of God and war against the evil powers
on high.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not in my opinion, since Islam is a religion of force and belief in a false
god, Allah, the god of the Quran (Koran). I would cetainly prefer Herman
Cain over four more years of Obama.

False god???

Don't you understand that Allah is the Arabic word for God?

Don't you understand that Ishmael was the person whose descendants started the wheels rolling on what was to become the Islamic faith?

Who was Ishmael? That's right, he was Abraham's son, his eldest son, brother of Isaac. Go back and read Genesis 21 for the whole story.

What does this mean? What is my point?

My point is what I have said in this forum several times. The God of Christians, the God of Jews, the God of Muslims, is the SAME God. And you, in your flaming ignorance, called Him a false god.

How many times do I have to plead with you to please, please stop making Christians look stupid?

Originally posted by Suzianne
False god???

Don't you understand that Allah is the Arabic word for God?

Don't you understand that Ishmael was the person whose descendants started the wheels rolling on what was to become the Islamic faith?

Who was Ishmael? That's right, he was Abraham's son, his eldest son, brother of Isaac. Go back and read Genesis 21 for the whole story.

W ...[text shortened]... many times do I have to plead with you to please, please stop making Christians look stupid?

Allah is not the God of the Holy Bible, but the god of the Koran.
Allah has no son, but God has an only begotten Son.
Allah is Satan in disguise. Allah teaches hate not love.
Allah is the god of destruction and death, not the God of life.
Allah is the god of lies, not the God of truth.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Allah is not the God of the Holy Bible, but the god of the Koran.
Allah has no son, but God has an only begotten Son.
Allah is Satan in disguise. Allah teaches hate not love.
Allah is the god of destruction and death, not the God of life.
Allah is the god of lies, not the God of truth.

"Allah" is a word used by Christians to refer to "God" here in Indonesia. The word means "God". Christians believe Allah had a son. Muslims don't believe Allah had a son. The Allah that all monotheists believe in here is the same God that appears in both Al Quran and the Bible. It is not a coincidence that both groups use the same word.

Originally posted by Suzianne
False god???

Don't you understand that Allah is the Arabic word for God?

Don't you understand that Ishmael was the person whose descendants started the wheels rolling on what was to become the Islamic faith?

Who was Ishmael? That's right, he was Abraham's son, his eldest son, brother of Isaac. Go back and read Genesis 21 for the whole story.

W ...[text shortened]... many times do I have to plead with you to please, please stop making Christians look stupid?

====================================
Don't you understand that Ishmael was the person whose descendants started the wheels rolling on what was to become the Islamic faith?
=========================================

Actually, and this is only an opinion, I think the tension between Arab and Jew is due more to the mother of Ishmeal.

This is what I think happened. The mother of Ishmael was Hagar an Egyptian slave girl of Abraham and Sarah. Abraham, if you know Genesis, exasperated that he and Sarah could not have the promised child succumbed to Sarah's suggestion that he have the child through Hagar the servant girl.

When Hagar gave birth to Ishmael tension arose between Sarah and Hagar. You know that Sarah resented the slave girls new found uppity status and told Abraham to throw woman and her child out, once Isaac had been born miraculously.

God intervened and had mercy on Hagar and Ishmael for Sarah and Abraham's failure in trying to "help" God fulfill His promise.

Well I imagine that Hagar never forgot the whole episode. And I imagine that she instilled into the mind of her son that he Ishmael was the son of a prophet of God. I can here her tell the little boy:

"Now don't you EVER forget. You were the promised son of the prophet Abraham. I was your mother and the prophet Abraham was your father. Don't you ever let anyone tell you that you were not the child of the prophet Abraham. You were the answer to God's promise to grant Abraham a seed. You must remember after I, your mother, die. You must tell your children for generations to come. You were Abraham's promised child."

Now, granted, this is only my imagination. I don't know this. But I think that the mother of Ishmael made certain that the young man understood his relationship with the prophet of God Abraham.

My opinion is that this backround is the basis of the intense jealousy and rivalry between the Arabs and the Jews.

What ? "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" they say?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
Don't you understand that Ishmael was the person whose descendants started the wheels rolling on what was to become the Islamic faith?
=========================================

Actually, and this is only an opinion, I think the tension between Arab and Jew is due more to the mother of Ishmeal.

This ...[text shortened]...

What ? "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" they say?[/b]

Yes, you are correct, jaywill (as so often happens).

It's all right there in Genesis 21.

Originally posted by FMF
"Allah" is a word used by Christians to refer to "God" here in Indonesia. The word means "God". Christians believe Allah had a son. Muslims don't believe Allah had a son. The Allah that all monotheists believe in here is the same God that appears in both Al Quran and the Bible. It is not a coincidence that both groups use the same word.

It is unthinkable and impossible for a Muslim to believe in the existence of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the New Testament sense. Whoever says that God has a partner, companion or an equal God beside him will, from an Islamic point of view, fall into an unforgivable sin (like the sin against the Holy Spirit in Christianity). Consequently, the Islamic confession of faith declares not just the uniqueness of Allah but at the same time firmly rejects the deity of Christ and the deity of the Holy Spirit.

In the Arabic language, the name Allah is a study in itself. The word can be understood as a sentence: al-el-hu. "El" is an old Semitic name for God meaning "the strong and mighty". The Islamic name, Allah, corresponds to the Hebrew name Elohim, which can also be understood as a statement: Al-el-hum. Although the Hebrew name Elohim contains the possibility of a plural (hum), the name of Allah (hu) can only be singular. Thus, Allah in Islam is always only one and never a unity of three, even if such a unity was complete in itself. When Christians claim that their Trinity does not mean three different, separated persons, but a unity in a Trinity, Muslims must repudiate this concept. For them Allah is never a triune God, but one person alone.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is unthinkable and impossible for a Muslim to believe in the existence of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the New Testament sense.

Well of course not. Muslim's are not Christians. These are two traditions and theologies addressing the same God. There are many points of divergence in terms of ceremonies, literature, practices, narratives. But the God of both these monotheistic religions is quite clearly the same one. Only the most hardline Muslims I've talked to have taken the same stance as you.

Originally posted by FMF
Well of course not. Muslim's are not Christians. These are two traditions and theologies addressing the same God. There are many points of divergence in terms of ceremonies, literature, practices, narratives. But the God of both these monotheistic religions is quite clearly the same one. Only the most hardline Muslims I've talked to have taken the same stance as you.

Only those that are ignorant of the truth believe that the god of
Islam is the same God of the Jews and the Christians. If we all
believed in the same God, the Muslims would not call us infidels.
Why then do they want to destroy the Jews and rule over the
Christians? If we all believed in the same God we would love each
other. But the Muslims want to drive the Jews in Israel into the
sea and kill them. They refer to America as the "Great Satan".
Islam is another lie created by Satan to deceive man and its fruit
is destruction and death.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Only those that are ignorant of the truth believe that the god of
Islam is the same God of the Jews and the Christians. If we all
believed in the same God, the Muslims would not call us infidels.
Why then do they want to destroy the Jews and rule over the
Christians? If we all believed in the same God we would love each
other. But the Muslims want to
Islam is another lie created by Satan to deceive man and its fruit
is destruction and death.

Why then do they want to destroy the Jews and rule over the Christians?

I think it should be pointed out that not all Muslims desire the above.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]Why then do they want to destroy the Jews and rule over the Christians?

I think it should be pointed out that not all Muslims desire the above.[/b]

True, however, they are those that don't truely understand Islam and are
not committed, in the same way that many are Christian in name only,
with a little show.

Originally posted by RJHinds
True, however, they are those that don't truely understand Islam and are
not committed, in the same way that many are Christian in name only,
with a little show.

Are you suggesting that only true Muslims want to 'destroy the Jews and rule over the Christians'?! The Muslims that don't endorse the above doctrine are not really Muslims at all?!

For what it's worth, i have seen very little on this board from you to suggest you are anything but a 'plastic' Christian.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Are you suggesting that only true Muslims want to 'destroy the Jews and rule over the Christians'?! The Muslims that don't endorse the above doctrine are not really Muslims at all?!

For what it's worth, i have seen very little on this board from you to suggest you are anything but a 'plastic' Christian.

Are you anything more than a "plastic" atheist?

Originally posted by RJHinds
True, however, they are those that don't truely understand Islam and are
not committed, in the same way that many are Christian in name only,
with a little show.

It's good that at least you have it all together. It's a shame that more people can't see the truth as you do.