Spirituality
11 Jul 11
24 Jul 11
Originally posted by Proper KnobI did not say that he claimed to know the truth.
[b]You are deceived into believing you know the truth.
Where has he ever claimed to know the 'truth'?[/b]
I said he was deceived into believing he knows the truth.
He certainly does not know the Truth.
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
24 Jul 11
Originally posted by RJHindsSo you have claimed that I am under the influence of Satan and yet you cannot cite any "evil" that I am supposedly up to. Does this mean you believe a person can live a good life - free of "evil" - even when under the influence of Satan, like you have claimed I inadvertently am?
You are deceived into believing you know the truth. You don't know
that you are deceived and therefore, do not believe when I tell you
the truth. I do not know what manner of evil you may be up to, that
will be between you and God.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFI don't recall saying you were under the influence of Satan, I think
So you have claimed that I am under the influence of Satan and yet you cannot cite any "evil" that I am supposedly up to. Does this mean you believe a person can live a good life - free of "evil" - even when under the influence of Satan, like you have claimed I inadvertently am?
I said you were deceived. I have no way of knowing if you are under
Satan's influence and control or not. But you can make sure you are not
by turning to Jesus and accepting Him as your God and Savior.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by RJHindsBeing deceived by "Satan" does not mean being influenced by him? How can that be? What is the substance of this deception you are referring to if it has no influence?
I don't recall saying you were under the influence of Satan, I think
I said you were deceived. I have no way of knowing if you are under
Satan's influence and control or not.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFI guess you will have to be the judge if you are under the influence of
Being deceived by "Satan" does not mean being influenced by him? How can that be? What is the substance of this deception you are referring to if it has no influence?
Satan or not. All I know for sure is that you are deceived.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by RJHindsThat simply dodges the question that arises from your assertions and accusations. What is the substance of this deception that you are claiming there is and, if it exists as you claim it does, how does this "Satanic" influence manifest itself?
I guess you will have to be the judge if you are under the influence of
Satan or not. All I know for sure is that you are deceived.
Why do I have to "judge if [I am]under the influence of Satan or not"? It is surely you who is making the accusation not me? It is surely you who is making the accusation that I am "deceived" by "Satan" and not me?
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFYou know yourself better than I do. You should be able to determine
That simply dodges the question that arises from your assertions and accusations. What is the substance of this deception that you are claiming there is and, if it exists as you claim it does, how does this "Satanic" influence manifest itself?
Why do I have to "judge if [I am]under the influence of Satan or not"? It is surely you who is making the accusation ...[text shortened]... t is surely you who is making the accusation that I am "deceived" by "Satan" and not me?
if your deception is self induced or is a result of Satan. I believe you
said you were not Moslem, so I do not know if the Islamic religion is
an influence on your life or not. You should know.
25 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsBut I am not claiming to be "deceived" by "Satan". I don't claim to be "deceived" at all. It is you who is making these accusations, but when asked to substantiate them you are saying it is me who has to substantiate them. Is this more of your 'humour'?
You know yourself better than I do. You should be able to determine
if your deception is self induced or is a result of Satan.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by RJHindsWhat would be the substance of this "influence" on me and the role of "Satan" in it?
I believe you said you were not Moslem, so I do not know if the Islamic religion is
an influence on your life or not.
You should know.
Once again, it is you who has to explain or justify your accusations, not me.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFDo the deceived know they are deceived before they learn they've been deceived?
But I am not claiming to be "deceived" by "Satan". I don't claim to be "deceived" at all. It is you who is making these accusations, but when asked to substantiate them you are saying it is me who has to do so.
Of course not! You see, FMF, being deceived isn't an accusation. It's an observation. Of course being told one is deceived feels a lot like an accusation, and maybe sometimes it is. But when talking about something like the existence of a supernatural being, the idea is that if one isn't aware of it's existence, it is as a result of having been deceived into thinking said being doesn't exist.
Of course, that argument works the other way around just as well.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by josephwWell the, why not justify the "observation"? What is the substance of this deception? How is "Satan" deceiving me? What is the substance of "Satan's" influence on me? What is it that you claim to be observing? All I am hearing is unsubstantiated claims and assertions.
DYou see, FMF, being deceived isn't an accusation. It's an observation. Of course being told one is deceived feels a lot like an accusation, and maybe sometimes it is.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFOkay. But I'm warning you. It can't be fully developed in this format. Let me just throw it out there off the cuff, and let's see how far we can go.
Well the, why not justify the "observation"? What is the substance of this deception? How is "Satan" deceiving me? What is the substance of "Satan's" influence on me? What is it that you claim to be observing? All I am hearing is unsubstantiated claims and assertions.
What are we able to do? By that I mean, what modes or avenues of expression are we capable of? (read my intent, as I'm sure my phraseology is lacking)
Three things. We think. We say. we do. That's all we have. You asked for justification of the observation. We think about, speak about, and do with what we observe. I observe the universe, and as I think about it, and talk about it, and act within it, I am aware of something bigger, greater than the universe itself. I don't know why that is, but I know it's true. (I know. I'm even boring myself)
In the end, how do I know anything at all? I don't. How can I? Did I invent myself?!? I must learn from observing an objective universe. It is from without that I learn what to think about, to talk about, and to act upon. I cannot, do not, generate an original thought, or speak words unknown, nor do I do anything that hasn't been done before. (excluding using a computer, but it's really only manipulating what already existed before we all came into existence) I hope you get my point.
I have learned to hear a voice.
25 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwSo you're saying it's not actually you who's observing me to be deceived/influenced by "Satan" but instead it's someone else telling you it is so, or perhaps something someone has claimed about me before, and then you are passing unsubstantiated assertion off as your own "observation"? Your's seems a highly convoluted kind of misanthropy, surely?
Okay. But I'm warning you. It can't be fully developed in this format. Let me just throw it out there off the cuff, and let's see how far we can go.
What are we able to do? By that I mean, what modes or avenues of expression are we capable of? (read my intent, as I'm sure my phraseology is lacking)
Three things. We think. We say. we do. That's all we all came into existence) I hope you get my point.
I have learned to hear a voice.
25 Jul 11
Originally posted by FMFHe is saying you must be born again.
So you're saying it's not actually you who's observing me to be deceived/influenced by "Satan" but instead it's someone else telling you it is so, or perhaps something someone has claimed about me before, and then you are passing unsubstantiated assertion off as your own "observation"? Your's seems a highly convoluted kind of misanthropy, surely?