The Processed Triune God

Originally posted by jaywill
You have not read all my posts carefully.

Look back through this thread and I think you will see a couple of references to "she" in reference to humankind.

Occasionally and unexpectedly I do shift to "she" in reference to a typical person.

All right!

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
All right!

Not a big deal. In a sense we are all female to Christ anyway.

The New Jerusalem is the climax of human history and she is one great big corporate woman.

What do you think of the seven steps of the process I outlined of how God gets Himself into man?

Originally posted by jaywill
Not a big deal. In a sense we are all female to Christ anyway.

The New Jerusalem is the climax of human history and she is one great big corporate woman.

What do you think of the seven steps of the process I outlined of how God gets Himself into man?

Are you telling us that the new Jerusalem is going to be like Oprah?

This is an excellent metaphor and I will tell you why later, but I wanted to see if you could name the parallels between Oprah and heaven.

Originally posted by jaywill
Not a big deal. In a sense we are all female to Christ anyway.

The New Jerusalem is the climax of human history and she is one great big corporate woman.

What do you think of the seven steps of the process I outlined of how God gets Himself into man?

What do you think of the seven steps of the process I outlined of how God gets Himself into man?

It is another form of idolatry!

http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/pdf/RealMessiahBookPages_v4ab.pdf

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]What do you think of the seven steps of the process I outlined of how God gets Himself into man?

It is another form of idolatry!

http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/web/pdf/RealMessiahBookPages_v4ab.pdf[/b]

I think the problem here is the Christian concept of God compared to the Muslim concept of God. The Christian concept of God is based on Christ who was seen as God in the flesh that came down to save us from our sins and give mercy to sinners such as the woman caught in adultery. It says that no greater love has someone than to lay down their life for their freinds as Jesus did. Also Christ referred to God as our Father in heaven and the church is referred to as the bridegroom awaiting Christ to return. These images of God are intimate and full of love to say the least.

Conversley, the God of Islam is one that originates from Mohammad. It is a God straight from the pages of the Old Testament. It is a God that requires an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He is a God of righteous judgement and to be feared. However, he is a more distant God that we dare not call Father in heaven. After all, we are but sinners in his sight. Although we know him to be mysterious, we dare not recieve such teachings as him being a triune God even if it means he remains as One God by such teachings.

Originally posted by whodey
I think the problem here is the Christian concept of God compared to the Muslim concept of God. The Christian concept of God is based on Christ who was seen as God in the flesh that came down to save us from our sins and give mercy to sinners such as the woman caught in adultery. It says that no greater love has someone than to lay down their life for thei ...[text shortened]... ch teachings as him being a triune God even if it means he remains as One God by such teachings.

GOD say in the OT that he is one.

And Jesus say in the NT that GOD is one.

And Quran say GOD is one.

What reason makes me belive that he is three in one?

Can you find the word trinity in the Bible?

Originally posted by ahosyney
GOD say in the OT that he is one.

And Jesus say in the NT that GOD is one.

And Quran say GOD is one.

What reason makes me belive that he is three in one?

Can you find the word trinity in the Bible?

What do you think of the seven steps that I outlined?

Can you see the process? Can you see a movement towards a goal? We cannot see the word trinity in the Bible. But we see the Father as the Source of the eternal life, the Son as the expression of the eternal life, and the Holy Spirit as the transmission of the eternal life.

I did not use the phrase "three in one". I would use the phrase "three-one".

But what I have tried to outline here is how this three-one God unfolds His being progressively for the purpose of DISPENSING Himself into man. What God IS is bound up within what God DOES.

Again I say that God's being - what He IS cannot be separated from His plan to unfold His being progressively for the dispensing of His divine life and nature into man.

The Trinity IS because the Trinity DOES. He imparts the unlimited and eternal life into man that God and man might be in an organic union. God wants to mingle Himself with man to be man's life for His glory and man's enjoyment.

Originally posted by jaywill
Not a big deal. In a sense we are all female to Christ anyway.

The New Jerusalem is the climax of human history and she is one great big corporate woman.

What do you think of the seven steps of the process I outlined of how God gets Himself into man?

1.) God had to create a universe to accomplish His plan to impart Himself into His creatures to be - human beings.

So if God exists, and wants to make humans, he has to create a universe. I suppose that makes sense; but what of God's supposed omnipotence? Why does God need a universe to create humans? Humans, supposedly by Christian doctrine, can exist after death so clearly don't need to be material beings.

2.) The Logos of God became a man to define and explain what divine Life is.

I don't know what "the Logos of God" means. A quick look at Wikipedia does not give a clear idea and I don't want to spend all day studying the concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos

Why would something have to become a man to define or explain something? I don't get it.

3.) This incarnated God-man Jesus had to pass through human living to prepare a God/man Spirit to be our life which He would dispense into His lovers.

Huh?

4.) He died a redemptive death to purchase from the custody of the law under which man fell through Adam's disobedience.

This does not make grammatical sense. What was he purchasing?

5.) He resurrected - overcoming death, conquering death, and proving the indistructible nature of this God/man union.

I don't think this happened, but I suppose I can suspend disbelief for a bit.

6.) All that He attained and obtained was compunded into the life giving Spirit and prepared to be imparted into His lovers.

Huh?

7.) This Godman Jesus ascended to the highest peak in the universe to be the Adminstrator and Executor of the testament of dispensing the life giving Spirit of the processed Triune God into His people.

Highest peak? This requires a definition of "down" and "bottom" which the universe as a whole does not have.

The rest of 7.) makes no sense to me.

Originally posted by whodey
I think the problem here is the Christian concept of God compared to the Muslim concept of God. The Christian concept of God is based on Christ who was seen as God in the flesh that came down to save us from our sins and give mercy to sinners such as the woman caught in adultery. It says that no greater love has someone than to lay down their life for thei ...[text shortened]... ch teachings as him being a triune God even if it means he remains as One God by such teachings.

Conversley, the God of Islam is one that originates from Mohammad. It is a God straight from the pages of the Old Testament. It is a God that requires an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He is a God of righteous judgement and to be feared. However, he is a more distant God that we dare not call Father in heaven. After all, we are but sinners in his sight. Although we know him to be mysterious, we dare not recieve such teachings as him being a triune God even if it means he remains as One God by such teachings.

Your statments includes a lot of fallacies. But I have a simple question, you talk about the OT GOD as he is different from the NT one, is this true?

Edit: I want your comment on this:
"Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation".

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So if God exists, and wants to make humans, he has to create a universe. I suppose that makes sense; but what of God's supposed omnipotence? Why does God need a universe to create humans? Humans, supposedly by Christian doctrine, can exist after death so clearly don't need to be material beings.

I know of no such teaching in the Bible. That is that humans don’t need a material body.
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The salvation outlined in First Thessalonians 5:23 includes all three parts of the human being: the spirit, the soul, and the body. ”And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess. 5:23)

Notice that apostle did not simply say “spirit and soul”. He included the human body in this process of being sanctified ”wholly”. And of course the resurrection of the physical body and its glorification negates the concept of saved humans being mere spirits in a ethereal afterlife.

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2.) The Logos of God became a man to define and explain what divine Life is.

I don't know what "the Logos of God" means. A quick look at Wikipedia does not give a clear idea and I don't want to spend all day studying the concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos

Why would something have to become a man to define or explain something? I don't get it.
=======================

Jesus Christ not only was needed to define what a normal human being should be. He also was needed to define what God intends in His union and mingling with man. The apostle John is very bold to tell us that no one has ever seen God and that the Son alone has manifested Him.

This is bold of John because God is said to have appeared to this or that Old Testament person. The Apostle John writes that these seeings of God do not count. Ultimately it is the God-man Jesus Christ who explains God, Who defines God, Who manifests God, and Who conveys God to us:


”No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” (John 1:18)

There is something profoundly mystical and divine about the Uncreated Eternal Life. Before all created lives there is the uncreated and eternal life which is a divine Being. Christ called Him ”the Father”. And ultimately this divine Person is manifested in a rich and indistructible life in a man – Jesus Christ.

It is not too necessary that we understand Word or Logos except that God is communicated and declared to us in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

==========================

3.) This incarnated God-man Jesus had to pass through human living to prepare a God/man Spirit to be our life which He would dispense into His lovers.

Huh?======================

Imagine a medical drink which is very very healthy. It has ingredients to kill off bad germs. It has ingredients to impart healthy vitamins. It has nutrients, germ killing agents, minerals, etc. Imagine a beverage which is so healthy that it fights disease and causes growth. This all-inclusive healthy drink is tasty and nourishing. You simply have to drink it in everyday.

This is just like the Holy Spirit. The last Adam (Jesus Christ) is said to have become a divine life giving Spirit – ”the last Adam became a life giving Spirit” (1 Cor. 15:45)

In this life giving Spirit are many rich ingredients. These are the attainments which Jesus passed through. His human living is there. His crucifixion is there. His resurrection is there. His love, His wisdom, His endurance, His submission, His authority, His insight, His tenderness. His patience, etc. all that He was and all that He passed through are now the ingredients of this all-inclusive Spirit.

The function of this life giving Spirit is to give us the divine life of the Godman Jesus. This Spirit is like a healthy beverage which we can take into us. From within our being this dynamic life giving Spirit santifies us wholly – spirit and soul and body. From the inside out this all-inclusive and healthy “beverage” transforms us into the image of Christ. It is a Spirit that the Bible says we can “drink” –

”For also in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and were all given to drink of one Spirit.” (1 Cor. 12:13)

You see? The Spirit that the believers are immersed in is also the Spirit that they drink into themselves. Here again we see “drink” mentioned in connection to this wonderful life giving Holy Spirit:

”But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water gushing up into eternal life” (John 4:14)

This all-inclusive healthy beverage of the Third Person of the Trinity will become the drink that gushes up from the spring in man’s innermost being, filling him, saturating him, and gushing up into eternal life. Here again Jesus mentions the drinking of the life giving Spirit:

”If anyone thirs, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom they were about to receive …” (John 7:37b-39a)

When we open our mouth and call upon the name of Jesus to touch Him, to contact Him, and to enjoy Him, the life giving Spirit begins to flow within us. He is not just one river. He is ”rivers of livnig water”.

There is a river for your troubled mind. There is a river for your wounded emotions. There is a river for your stubburn will. The Holy Spirit like an healthy beverage knows where in your being to flow Himself to heal and save you from many negative things.

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4.) He died a redemptive death to purchase from the custody of the law under which man fell through Adam's disobedience.

This does not make grammatical sense. What was he purchasing?
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The grammer may not be proper. And the subject is a big one. Many things could be written about this.

But in short Christ bought the sinful sinner out from under the custody of the law of God and its penalty. We owe the law of God very much. Christ’s redemptive death paid the sinner’s dept to the law of God. This is something established by God’s authority.

This is a brief word on Redemption which I do not pretend fully addresses your question. I want to stay with the topic of the Processes Triune God. So I don’t think I will launch into a full discussion on Redemption.

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5.) He resurrected - overcoming death, conquering death, and proving the indistructible nature of this God/man union.

I don't think this happened, but I suppose I can suspend disbelief for a bit. ============================

This is the crux of the entire Gospel of God. If Christ did not rise from the dead then the New Testament is meaningless and we believers are most tragically deceived. Make no mistake about it. Without the resurrection of Jesus Christ the entire Christian collapses into meaninglessness. The resurrection of Christ is most crucial and vital.

If Christ did not rise from the dead then our faith is meaningless. It is as the life giving Spirit in resurrection that Christ can impart His eternal life into man – ”the last Adam became a life giving Spirit” (1 Cor. 15:45)

I would advize you to read aloud the 15th chapter of First Corinthians which is on the vital importance of Christ’s resurrection. If your heart is opened and you are willing to be changed by God, I think the faith you don’t have will be put into your heart by the word of God, eventually.

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6.) All that He attained and obtained was compunded into the life giving Spirit and prepared to be imparted into His lovers.

Huh? ========================

Go back to the matter of the all-inclusive healthy beverage drink explanation, for now.

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7.) This Godman Jesus ascended to the highest peak in the universe to be the Adminstrator and Executor of the testament of dispensing the life giving Spirit of the processed Triune God into His people.

Highest peak? This requires a definition of "down" and "bottom" which the universe as a whole does not have.

The rest of 7.) makes no sense to me.
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Take “highest peak” as poetic talk if you must. As long as it conveys the preeminent place, the most important place, the place of utmost dignity, the place of utmost majesty, the place of greatest authority.

If I convey to you that then the physical characteristics of such a place are quite secondary. The phrase “the right hand of God” should convey to us the place somewhere of the greatest majesty and authority.

Ahosney asked me to comment on this:

"Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation".


The Firstborn of all creation does not mean the first creature that God created. It means that of all creation, of all the created items of the universe Christ has the preeminence.

Now we have to pay careful attention to all the the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that Christ is God eternal Who had no beginning. He preceeded creation. And He existed before the universe came into being.

The Bible also teaches that God was incarnated as a man. The Creator was incarnated as a man.

Now man is a item of God's creation. God created man according to Genesis 1:26-28. Man came out of the creative activity of the eternal Creator. So the passage "the Word became flesh" in John 1:14 means that the Creator clothed Himself in His creation. The Creator God joined His creation. Flesh is without dispute an item of God's creation.

So Christ is the Creator God Who is joined in incarnation with His creation. Since man is without dispute an item of creation - Christ is both the Creator and the creature joined in one Person. This is the meaning of incarnation. God the eternal and uncreated is mingled with man the topmost item of the creation of God.

God and man are united and joined in one Person - the Lord Jesus Christ. As a part of creation He is the most important item of all the created items in the universe. As such Paul says that He is the "Firstborn of all creation" .


Since the eternal Word of God put on flesh and took on blood of a man He is the preeminent One in all creation. And all creation is FOR Him. And all creation is unto Him and for the benefit of Him. The entire universe is for and unto Jesus Christ. And in this creation He as the eternal uncreated Life become flesh and blood, is the Firstborn of all creation.

Now that "Firstborn" relates to the old creation. In the same passages Paul also says that Christ is the Firstborn from among the dead. The creation after resurrection is the new creation. So in both the old creation and in the new creation Christ has the first place.

I have no spoken much about the new creation in this post. Briefly, the initiation of the old creation is God calling the created things into being. The initiation of the new creation is the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

When Jesus says that He is the Amen - the beginning of the creation of God in Revelation chapter 3, He means that He is the beginning of the creation of God initiated by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

Think of the Big Bang theory. This understanding is the universe is expanding out from an explosion from a singularity. This singularity became the Big Bang expanding outward in space and time as the universe.

This concept is useful to understand the eternal plan of God. Think of Jesus Christ as the singularity. In Him God and man are united. In Christ God and man are mingled and brought into an organic union.

This union of God and man is the spiritual Big Bang in which gradually thought eternity God Himself expands and fills up humanity. God dispenses Himself as the Big Bang of eternal divine life fully saturating and permeating His people.

The physical Big Bang is a useful picture. The spiritual Big Bang is the reality of God "exploding" within humanity. He wants to mass produce Christ. He wants many sons conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ the God / Man.

For this we were created. And for this purpose the universe and man within the universe exists.

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]Conversley, the God of Islam is one that originates from Mohammad. It is a God straight from the pages of the Old Testament. It is a God that requires an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He is a God of righteous judgement and to be feared. However, he is a more distant God that we dare not call Father in heaven. After all, we are but sinners in hi ...[text shortened]... this:
"Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all [b]creation".[/b]

What fallacies are you referring to?

It would appear on the surface that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are different, no? However, does this mean that they are? I do not think so. I believe God to be both a God of love and a righteous judge. However, there appears to be a disconnect between the two because comparing the Old and New Testaments we are both the object of love and of wrath. How can this be? I think that if one examines why we become the object of wrath, one can better understand the reasons for such apparent contradictions. Man is not the object of wrath, rather, it is the sin of man that is the object of man's wrath. Sin is a destructive force that hinders God's plan and God's best for his creation. Therefore, not coming to terms with sin and destroying sin would hinder and continue to harm his creataion throughout all of eternity because God's best is then withheld. Would such a God be a loving God if he did not judge and expell all sin from creation? I don't think so. But why then does he not just do it now and get it all over with? It is because sin has implanted its roots into the hearts of men. Therefore, to destory the sin you must also destroy the sinner. However, God loves the sinner and only wants to destroy the sin. This is why Christ came to earth. He came to destroy sin and deaths power over us and set us free thus destroying the sin but preserving the sinner. This period is known as the period of grace. Judgement over sin is not immediate and harsh as with the old covenant in the Old Testament such as an eye for an eye. The woman caught in adultery is a good example. She deserved death under Mosaic law but Christ showed her mercy and destroyted the sin that had power over her thus saving the sinner but destroying the sin. We now have a better covenant through Christ because the one who has conquered sin and death in our lives via the cross gives us the option of destroying the sin instead of the sinner. Before this time, however, the woman caught in adultery should have been stonned for her sin under Mosaic law to destroy the sin and prevent it from spreading to others that God loves.

From a Biblical perspective it has been God's plan to bring redemption to fallen man. I think we can both agree with this statement, no? However, what was the plan? From the Biblical perspective God began a work in the individual lives of men such as Abraham. Then through Abraham God brought about a people unto himself via Jacob, or Israel, that then brought forth a redeemer known as the Messiah. When the Messiah then came his first obligation was to the people of God or the decendants of Abraham and Jacob. But then after he had ministered to them and was rejected by them Christ then reached out to the Gentile nations for their redemption. Thus we see a work in the lives of individual men to that of a nation and then finally to that of the world at large.

I don't know what the Islamic perspective is in regards to God's plan for mankind. Perhaps it was to bring Mohammad into the world to reveal God's will for all of mankind and then simply spread the word until all of the world is Muslim while at the same time killing off the sinners as in the time of the Old Testament to try and destroy the sins in the lives of men. Perhaps you can share this information. For example, do you hold to the Mosaic law that those caught in adultery should still be stonned?

As far as the verse in Colossians I will attempt to interpret it for you. Christ is the image of the invisible God. When his disciples asked to see the Father Christ said that if you see me, you see the Father. This is quite a statement. I don't think I could make such a claim. Perhaps you feel that you could or Mohammad could? As far as being the firstborn of all creation this is referring to Christs birth into the world to redeem all of creation back unto God. I think I know what your question is, if Christ was firstborn, he must have been created and therefore could not be part of the Trinity. To begin with, I think we can both agree that Adam was the first man created and not Christ. Not only that, Adam was not the firstborn, rather, it was Cain. How then could Christ be the firstborn? We also both know that Christ claimed to exist before the time of Abraham. But how could this be when he was born so many years after Abraham walked the earth? The ansser is that Christ redeemed all of mankind and therefore was the begining of life eternal given back to God's creation. He was also born into the world despite haveing existed prior to his birth. This is why he is referred to as the firstborn of all creation.

Originally posted by jaywill
Ahosney asked me to comment on this:

[b]"Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation".


The Firstborn of all creation does not mean the first creature that God created. It means that of all creation, of all the created items of the universe Christ has the preeminence.

Now we have to pay careful attentio ...[text shortened]... beginning of the creation of God initiated by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.[/b]

2nd Chronicles

18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
-------------------------------

GOD said about himself that he can't live with men on earth, and you come to say he did.

Who do you want me to belive , you or GOD?

Originally posted by ahosyney
2nd Chronicles

18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
-------------------------------

GOD said about himself that he can't live with men on earth, and you come to say he did.

Who do you want me to belive , you or GOD?

Ahosney,

That is a very meanigful passage that you refered to. And we also have to take into account another passage like it:


"Thus says Jehovah, Heaven in my throne, And the earth is the footstool for My feet. Where is the house that you will build for Me, And where is the place of My rest?

For all these things My hand has made, And so all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah.

But to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word." (Isaah 66:1-2)

Here also God shows Israel that they could never build a house for Him to live in and rest in. But He follows this with the very meaningful passage:

"BUT to this kind of man will I look ..."

Look for what? It means that for His house and for His rest He will look to a certain kind of man. This passage clearly indicats that God seeks His rest and His dwelling place by living within man. A certain kind of man with a contrite spirit who is not self satisfied but who trembles at the word of God.

For His rest and for His house HE will turn His eyes upon MAN. God seeks to live in man and find His rest in man. And in so coming into man we also find our rest and satisfaction.

Jesus Christ PROVES the God is not ONLY our Redeemer. He proves that HE desires to be man's life. He desires to be expressed from within man by mingling Himself with man's life.


Jesus.