The Schoolgirl The Nazis and The Purple Triangles

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
Rutherford's letter should be enough for you?

Why do you reject it?

No Johnny, you tell us, which policies did we support, you said we supported them all, those were your words, were they not, shall i retrieve them for you so that you can eat them again? either put up or stop telling lies, you have made the assertion, substantiate it, fourth of fifth time asking, why cant you do it?

I am not rejecting anything Rutherford wrote, i want proof of your assertions that we supported all of the policies of the Nazi government. Why cant you provided it? I provided the policies, all you need to do is provide the proof that we supported those policies, you said it.

here are your words again Johnny,

the Watchtower organization agreed with many if not all of Hitler's policies.

As yet you have provided no evidence of what these policies were nor evidence of how we supported them, which makes you either extremely shy Johnny or a liar.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
More Bull than a Herd of Texan longhorns,

which policies of the Nazis did we support, is all you have some links, you made the assertion, surely you can substantiate it in your own words? So i will ask you gain, see if you can do better than Johhny, which policies of the Nazi government did we support.

http://watchtowerlies.com/watchtowerlies_099.htm


Rutherfords letter.

Read it. It says he is pro German. Pro Hitlers government
and that Hitler need not worry about Watchtower activities
in Germany.

Hitler didn't buy it. He closed you down and yes a lot of
atrocities were committed towards people of your organization
and others who had no part of your organization.

But before that, the letter clearly shows that Rutherford
attempted to work with Hitler, saying that the Watchtower
were pro German, Pro Hitler and agreed with all his policies and that
they too ( the Watchtower ) had problems with Jews and Catholics.
It is all there in the letter written by your President.

When Hitler showed that he was having none of it,
it was only then that the Watchtower condemned
Hitler's Government.

It is there in the letter written by Rutherford
and you cannot call that longhorn Texan bull
or any other type of bull.

It is the truth and you don't like it.

thank you for watching sonship with an open mind, we worship only the father, Christ is the King designate of Gods Kingdom, he plays a very special role, but we do not worship the Christ, we worship the father, exclusively. It depends on what you mean therefore by the statement, 'in confessing Christ as Lord'. If you could elaborate upon it, i may be able to elucidate our stance.

The "special role" is that in Christ God and man are UNITED as one.

He is not only the object of eternal worship but also the Head of a new humanity of sons of God similarly UNITED with God. How do I know?

Before the creation of the universe God ordained to have sons of God enjoying "sonship"

"Even as He chose is in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto SONSHIP through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. (Eph. 1:4,5 my emphasis)

The phrase "before the foundation of the world" means before the creation of the world. So the "special role" of Christ is not only a King but the Firstborn Son of God.

How do I know that ?

"Because whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Romans 8:29)

The "special role" certainly includes that the only begotten Son of God was raised to be the FIRSTBORN of many brother sons of God - those predestinated from before the creation of the universe.

We Christians WORSHIP Him and LIVE through Him. And He was the ONE grain that fell into the ground to produce MANY GRAINS like Himself (many brothers).

How do I know that ?

"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone, but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

The divine life concealed in the shell of the Son of God's humanity has now been released that He might be dispensed into many sons of God to produce the mass duplication of the mingling of God and man.

Now Christ is the God to whom every knee will bow and every tongue confess. How do I know ? Compare -

" ... I, Jehovah ... And there is no other God besides Me; A righteous God and a Savior, And there is no one except Me.

Turn to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth, For I am God and there is no one else.

I have sworn by Myself; A word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness and will not return,

That every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall swear. It shall be said of Me, Only in Jehovah is there righteousness and strength.

To Him shall men come, And all those who are burning in anger against Him shall be ashamed." (Isaiah 45:21c-24)

Then we see the word of God saying the same thing concerning God incarnate as the Son, Christ -

"Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

And every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11)

If you want to refuse to bow the knee to the Lord Jesus and confess Him Lord to the glory of the Father, you would be acting like one of the ones God says - " To Him shall men come, And all those who are burning in anger against Him shall be ashamed."

Maybe the Jehovah's Witnesses are ANGRY with Jehovah since He became incarnated and revealed the astounding revelation of the Father - the Son - the Holy Spirit.

Remember the Son in a parable concerning those who rejected the king God sent -

"But his citizens hated him and sent an envoy after him, saying, We do not want this man to reign over us." (Luke 19:14)

Are the Jehovah's Witness like this envoy sending messages out that they do not want this man Jesus Christ to reign over them ?

But this One shall reign forever and ever.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Revelation 11:15)

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] thank you for watching sonship with an open mind, we worship only the father, Christ is the King designate of Gods Kingdom, he plays a very special role, but we do not worship the Christ, we worship the father, exclusively. It depends on what you mean therefore by the statement, 'in confessing Christ as Lord'. If you could elaborate upon it, i may be rist, and He will reign forever and ever." (Revelation 11:15) [/b]

They have been provided the following information from the Gospel of John before:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own[d] did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”

However, due to their indoctrination that the "Trinity" is a pagan concept they will not receive him. They recognize that the "Word" refers to the "Son of God" and Jesus. But they argue againt a unity of the Father and Son and claim that the "Word" is another little god that was with the big God, whom they call "Jehovah" and the Father.

Therefore, they can not receive this little god to worship as they worship the big God because the little god is only called "mighty" and not "Almighty" and they will not honor the Son as they do the father by giving Him worship, even thought the following scripture has been pointed out to them.

For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.

(John 5:21-23, 37-38 NKJV)

YouTube

Pushback.

But HOW do I know that the "He" of Revelation 11:15 refers to Christ ?

But this One shall reign forever and ever.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Revelation 11:15)

Maybe the He refers to our Lord and not His Christ.

Well the JWs love the Old Testament. So I would draw their attention to Psalm 72 about the Messianic King.

"O God, give Your judgments to the king, ..." (v.1)

Concerning this king who is the focus of the praises of Psalm 72 -

"In His days the righteous will flourish, And there will be abundance of peace UNTIL THE MOON IS NO MORE." (v.7)

I think we can count that as meaning eternity.
Not convinced ?

"He will judge the poor of the people; He will save the children of the needy and crush the oppressor.

They will fear You as long as the sun endures and as long as the moon endures throughout the generations." (v.4,5)

If you say the "You" there refers to Jehovah and not the king, it is really strained. But it would not work anyway because the duration of the moon is used for both as a sign of how long this or that action will be had towards Him.

"His name [the king's ] will be forever" (v.17)

What was that ?

"His name [this king's name] will be forever; And as long as the sun endures, His name will spread .."

In the new heaven and new earth there are the seasons. This indicates that the moon and the sun will be there I would gather.

Christ reigns forever and ever. Of course Christ's reigning is God reigning. So Our Lord and His Christ is really one Triune God reigning forever.

Originally posted by sonship
Pushback.

But HOW do I know that the "He" of Revelation 11:15 refers to Christ ?

But this One shall reign forever and ever.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Revelation 11:15)

Maybe the [b]He refers to our Lord and not His Christ.

igning. So Our Lord and His Christ is really one Triune God reigning forever.[/b]

They will always come up with some reason to reject the Triune God idea. For example, when Jesus said that all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him and commanded His disciples to go baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they ask who gave Him the authority and want to know the name of the Holy Spirit.

They never look to see how the disciples carried out that command. The disciples always baptized in the name of "Jesus" and that is only one name. You won't find any place in scripture where they baptized in the name of "Jehovah" and yet they keep asking for the name of the Holy Spirit, as if they need three names instead of just the one name of Jesus.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Glory be to God! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] thank you for watching sonship with an open mind, we worship only the father, Christ is the King designate of Gods Kingdom, he plays a very special role, but we do not worship the Christ, we worship the father, exclusively. It depends on what you mean therefore by the statement, 'in confessing Christ as Lord'. If you could elaborate upon it, i may be ...[text shortened]... rist, and He will reign forever and ever." (Revelation 11:15) [/b]

I asked a simple question, with regard to the phrase, 'confess Jesus as Lord', what does it mean and expected a simple answer, not a verbal tirade.

What i have found is that the term 'confess', simply means to acknowledge, you can find this throughout the scriptures and as I have already stated, we indeed do acknowledge that Christ is King of Gods Kingdom. There was no need for a lengthy verbal tirade, its really quite a simple matter.

I asked a simple question, with regard to the phrase, 'confess Jesus as Lord', what does it mean and expected a simple answer, not a verbal tirade.

It means you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord.

What i have found is that the term 'confess', simply means to acknowledge, you can find this throughout the scriptures and as I have already stated, we indeed do acknowledge that Christ is King of Gods Kingdom. There was no need for a lengthy verbal tirade, its really quite a simple matter.

That "lengthy verbal tirade" is called the The New Testament.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I asked a simple question, with regard to the phrase, 'confess Jesus as Lord', what does it mean and expected a simple answer, not a verbal tirade.

What i have found is that the term 'confess', simply means to acknowledge, you can find this throughout the scriptures and as I have already stated, we indeed do acknowledge that Christ is King of Gods Kingdom. There was no need for a lengthy verbal tirade, its really quite a simple matter.

Do you acknowledge the the watchtower likes to replace the word Lord in their NWT, when referring to God, with the name "Jehovah"? For example: Lord God - Jehovah God. So could you replace "Lord" with "Jehovah" in the phrase "Jesus is Lord" so it reads "Jesus is Jehovah"?

The Instructor

Originally posted by sonship

I asked a simple question, with regard to the phrase, 'confess Jesus as Lord', what does it mean and expected a simple answer, not a verbal tirade.

It means you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord.

What i have found is that the term 'confess', simply means to acknowledge, you can find this throughout the scriptures and as I h ...[text shortened]... atter.

That "lengthy verbal tirade" is called the [b] The New Testament.[/b]

sure it was.

sure it was.

Can you prove it wasn't ?

Originally posted by sonship

sure it was.

Can you prove it wasn't ?

yes, can you provide a single reference where Christ instructed others to worship him?

So some people used their LEFT hand to solute Hitler.
And some people tried to hide behind the crowd when they said "Heil Hitler."

But some simply boldly refused to say it.

Now I ask a Jehovah's Witness if he feels comfortable to say "Jesus is Lord." I get explanations and questions about what does it mean that Jesus is Lord.

This sounds like a tricky left handed solute or an evasive excusing of one's self to simply confess before men that Christ is the Lord. His name is the highest name in this age and in the age to come (Ephesians 1:21) .

I am happy to admit that my God is the Man Jesus Christ.
Before men, before God, before Satan, before the angels and demons and before the world I gladly confess Jesus Christ is the only Lord of the universe.

As Robbie said. It is basically simple.

Originally posted by sonship
So some people used their LEFT hand to solute Hitler.
And some people tried to hide behind the crowd when they said "Heil Hitler."

But some simply boldly refused to say it.

Now I ask a Jehovah's Witness if he feels comfortable to say "Jesus is Lord." I get explanations and questions about what does it mean that Jesus is Lord.

This sounds li sus Christ is the only Lord of the universe.

As Robbie said. It is basically simple.

a single reference thanks.

yes, can you provide a single reference where Christ instructed others to worship him?

What do you think Philippians 2:10,11 has in mind ?

" That in the name of JESUS every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

Why one reference ? We put the various statements of the word of God together to get what is called the "plenary" revelation - the whole picture.

Hebrews 1:6 - "And again when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth, He says, And let all the angels of God worship Him."

Do you think the command is that all the angels of God are to worship Him but all the human beings are not ?