The Schoolgirl The Nazis and The Purple Triangles

Originally posted by sonship

yes, can you provide a single reference where Christ instructed others to worship him?

What do you think [b]Philippians 2:10,11 has in mind ?

" That in the name of JESUS every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to t ommand is that all the angels of God are to worship Him but all the human beings are not ?

I will ask you again, you seem to be unable to comprehend what I am asking,

Can you cite a single Biblical reference where Jesus himself instructs others to worship him?

Thanks

Perhaps this might help you, when questioned on what constituted appropriate worship, what did Jesus infact instruct others to do? hmmm,

(Matthew 4:8-11) Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

I will ask you again, you seem to be unable to comprehend what I am asking,

Can you cite a single Biblical reference where Jesus himself instructs others to worship him?

Thanks

So you do not count the ministry of the Apostle Paul to be the speaking of God ?

So you want to see "Worship Me" in the "red letters" so to speak otherwise you will not believe it is God's will.

Well then why should I believe you and your publications? They are not the "red letters" coming directly out of the mouth of Jesus either.

There are no "red letters" as direct quotes saying anything about more than half the stuff you teach from door to door.

When Thomas worshipped Jesus saying "My Lord and my God" we don't see Christ jumping in with all the Watchtower excuses. He rather said - "Because you have seen Me, you have believed, Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed." (John 20:29)

Believed WHAT ?
Judging from the plain text Jesus must mean not only that He rose from the dead but that He was Lord and God.

How come we don't see Jesus jumping all over Thomas to stop his adoration ? How come we see rather Jesus saying " Because you have seen Me you have believed ..." ?

Your maneuvers are worthless.

True worship is to LIVE through Christ and allow Christ to LIVE in us.
Your whole concept of "worship" is very limited.
But I am glad to use even your limited idea of prostrating or worshipping in that outward sense. I am happy to do that also - bend the knee or confess with the mouth.

It is too bad that you reject the apostles that Christ sent.
In doing so you reject the Lord Jesus too.

"As You have sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world." (John 17:16)

Your challenge to see one single verse in the "red letters" with Jesus saying "Worship Me" is just your rejection of the sent ones, the apostles of the New Testament and subsequently your rejection of Christ as the Lord.

Don't try to talk about some "special place" of Jesus short of being the Lord Jesus. This is like the kiss of Judas to me.

Originally posted by sonship

I will ask you again, you seem to be unable to comprehend what I am asking,

Can you cite a single Biblical reference where Jesus himself instructs others to worship him?

Thanks

So you do not count the ministry of the Apostle Paul to be the speaking of God ?

So you want to see "Worship Me" in the "red letters" so to speak o short of being the Lord Jesus. This is like the kiss of Judas to me.

Let it be known that you have not provided a single Biblical reference where Jesus instructed others to worship him, no not a single iota. Thank you for establishing the fact that Christ never instructed anyone to worship him ever and that he always directed others to worship the Father exclusively.

Why you continue to make Christ an object of idolatry is your affair, I will have no part of it, but reserve the right to adhere to the teachings of Christ and refuse to worship anyone or anything other than the Father, as recorded in the sacred text and as directed by Christ himself.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Let it be known that you have not provided a single Biblical reference where Jesus instructed others to worship him, no not a single iota. Thank you for establishing the fact that Christ never instructed anyone to worship him ever and that he always directed others to worship the Father exclusively.

Why you continue to make Christ an object of ...[text shortened]... nything other than the Father, as recorded in the sacred text and as directed by Christ himself.

But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

(Hebrews 1:6 NKJV)

Can you give a single instance where Jesus refuses this worship?

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

(John 14:6 NKJV)

How then can you worshp the father without coming through the Son?

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

(John 14:8-10 NKJV)

The Instructor

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice:

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.

(Revelation 5:8-14 NKJV)

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

(Revelation 1:17-18 NKJV)

YouTube

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

(Hebrews 1:6 NKJV)

Can you give a single instance where Jesus refuses this worship?

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

(John 14:6 NKJV)

How then can you ...[text shortened]... eve that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? [/b]

(John 14:8-10 NKJV)

The Instructor[/b]

Thank you for also establishing the fact that there is not a single Biblical reference where Jesus instructs others to worship him. Why you have made Christ an object of idolatry is your affair, as for me, I will have no part of it, but will remain steadfast in my integrity to worship the Father exclusively as recorded in scripture and as directed by Jesus himself.

It is a fundamental principle that one who is a Christian follows the teachings of Christ, not to deviate from them and engage in idolatry.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Let it be known that you have not provided a single Biblical reference where Jesus instructed others to worship him, no not a single iota. Thank you for establishing the fact that Christ never instructed anyone to worship him ever and that he always directed others to worship the Father exclusively.

Why you continue to make Christ an object of ...[text shortened]... nything other than the Father, as recorded in the sacred text and as directed by Christ himself.

It seems to me, I remember Jesus saying 'I and the Father are one'.

Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:25-30 NIV)

Any comments?

Originally posted by kd2acz
It seems to me, I remember Jesus saying 'I and the Father are one'.

Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one wi ...[text shortened]... them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:25-30 NIV)

Any comments?

Why should I have any comment, is it some kind of direction given by Christ to his followers that they should worship him? If you are going to use it as a pretext for claiming that Christ and the father are the same entity, as i suspect you are, then you are going to have to explain, how the disciples also became part of the same entity,

(John 17:20-23) . . .“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word;  in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.  Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.  I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one,

the oneness that you are claiming has some significance is nothing more than unity from the Greek, hen, to show oneness in cooperation.

“I and the Father are one.”—JOHN 10:30.

Novatian (c. 200-258 C.E.) commented: “Since He said ‘one’ thing, let the heretics understand that He did not say ‘one’ person. For one placed in the neuter, intimates the social concord, not the personal unity. Moreover, that He says one, has reference to the agreement, and to the identity of judgment, and to the loving association itself, as reasonably the Father and Son are one in agreement, in love, and in affection.” - Treatise Concerning the Trinity, chapter 27.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Thank you for also establishing the fact that there is not a single Biblical reference where Jesus instructs others to worship him. Why you have made Christ an object of idolatry is your affair, as for me, I will have no part of it, but will remain steadfast in my integrity to worship the Father exclusively as recorded in scripture and as directed b ...[text shortened]... is a Christian follows the teachings of Christ, not to deviate from them and engage in idolatry.

If you want to restrict to the "red letters" to find the phrase "Worship Me" then I ask you to also refer to the "red letters" to find Jesus saying ANYTHING like-

1.) "No blood transfusions"

2.) "No being a soldier"

3.) "The Trinity is Babylonian"

4.) "Only 144,000 will go to heaven"

5.) "144,000 will be a government"

6.) "I Will return on THIS specific year"

7.) "Jehovah's organization is in Brooklyn New York"

8.) "Solute no flags"

9.) "The Holy Spirit is only a force"

10.) "The dead are non-existent and know nothing."

You likewise produce clear and unambiguous quotations in the "red letters" telling me the above Jehovah's Witnesses dogmas.

Originally posted by sonship
If you want to restrict to the "red letters" to find the phrase "Worship Me" then I ask you to also refer to the "red letters" to find Jesus saying ANYTHING like-

1.) "No blood transfusions"

2.) "No being a soldier"

3.) "The Trinity is Babylonian"

4.) "Only 144,000 will go to heaven"

5.) "144,000 will be a government"

6.) "I Will re ons in the "red letters" tell me the above Jehovah's Witnesses dogmas.

Another logical fallacy, seeking to establish the validity of your own assertions by asking others to provide evidence for theirs is fallacious and illogical. You must provide evidence for and substantiate your own assertions.

You claim that its legitimate to worship Christ despite the fact that there is not a single Biblical reference where Christ directed his disciples to do just that, no not a single reference. What is more, there is evidence to the contrary, where Christ states that the Father should be worshipped exclusively.

If you are claiming that there is no specific reference, then fine, if you are claiming that it may be inferred from scripture while not explicitly stated, then fine, if you are claiming that it denies Christ own statement to worship the Father exclusively because of some other considerations then fine, otherwise, you must accept that the Bible contains no such explicit direction and it is a product of something extra Biblical, either tradition or some other teaching. To me its an act of idolatry to worship anything other than the Father and I reserve the right to maintain purity of worship.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Another logical fallacy, seeking to establish the validity of your own assertions by asking others to provide evidence for theirs is fallacious and illogical. You must provide evidence for and substantiate your own assertions.

You claim that its legitimate to worship Christ despite the fact that there is not a single Biblical reference where Chri ...[text shortened]... to worship anything other than the Father and I reserve the right to maintain purity of worship.

Rank Hypocrisy of the highest order on your part.

To me its an act of idolatry to worship anything other than the Father and I reserve the right to maintain purity of worship.

No one is taking away your right to refuse to worship the Lord Jesus Christ.

But you have an antichrist teaching, which you deem is "purity of worship".

Rank hypocrisy.
I'm not spending a lot time with you.
You've been debunked and re-debunked in the past until you left the Forum only to come back for more debunking.

Let it be known that you have not provided a single Biblical reference where Jesus instructed others to worship him, no not a single iota

John 5:21,22 - "For neither does the Father judge anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, In order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father.

He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."


The Jehovah's Witness will probably come back and say something like "Oh no, no , no ... that is not worship."