The Universe

Originally posted by black beetle
If space (the 3D realm in which all material objects are located and all events occur, that is) is existent, then space is indeed observable
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If time (the temporal realm in which all material objects are located and all events occur, that is) is existent, then time is indeed observable. 🙂

Originally posted by lemon lime
I assumed in his question josephw was referring to "a single frame of reference according to which the universe has a static geometry of three spatial dimensions."

Yes. We all assumed that. However, every reference he has given so far, does not talk about that at all, which is why I pointed out his confusion to him.
When physicists ask whether or not the universe is flat, they are not talking about the shape of the universe in a static geometry of three spatial dimensions.

Oddly enough he has not given any references whatsoever for the figures he initially gave. I am curious as to how he came up with them.

Originally posted by black beetle
If space (the 3D realm in which all material objects are located and all events occur, that is) is existent, then space is indeed observable
😵

Well, think about a conveyor belt made of glass, we suppose this is a new kind of glass that is also flexible but 100% transparent. So on this belt you have stuff, that stuff is being moved by the conveyor belt. You can see the STUFF but you can't see the belt. That is what he means by not being able to 'see' space.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well, think about a conveyor belt made of glass, we suppose this is a new kind of glass that is also flexible but 100% transparent. So on this belt you have stuff, that stuff is being moved by the conveyor belt. You can see the STUFF but you can't see the belt. That is what he means by not being able to 'see' space.

Hey sonhouse, it's been some time -hope you and yours are good!

This is what I, too, think he says. Well, in the dynamic and complex multi-dimensional Energy-Matter Field we define as “universe”, methinks space and time are just characteristics of this unlimited in time and/ or space gestalt. So we could probably agree that time is a subjective experience of consciousness and the reality we grasp as a manifestation of light: for our analytical and calculation purposes, time is a virtual dimension that, instead of a direction as the three spatial ones (although it has a pure directional quality, the arrow), is the observable process I mentioned above. That being said, I think this observable process is empty (it lacks of inherent existence)
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Originally posted by twhitehead
Neither is space. We only see object in space and time. We can measure their position in space and time. Dimensions are not visible objects, they are the rulers by which we measure objects, and time is one of those rulers.

We can measure objects that occupy space by use of a ruler to obtain its three dimensions of height, width, and length. I doubt that time is really a dimension, since it does not seem to be related to the other three dimensions and it has yet to be proven to be a real dimension.

The Holy Bible says that God stretched out the heavens. And we think of that as stretching out the dimensions of height, width, and length, but not the stretching of time.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We can measure objects that occupy space by use of a ruler to obtain its three dimensions of height, width, and length. I doubt that time is really a dimension, since it does not seem to be related to the other three dimensions and it has yet to be proven to be a real dimension.

The Holy Bible says that God stretched out the heavens. And we think of that as stretching out the dimensions of height, width, and length, but not the stretching of time.

what definition of the word 'dimension' are you working to?

Originally posted by RJHinds
We can measure objects that occupy space by use of a ruler to obtain its three dimensions of height, width, and length.

And we can measure objects that occupy space-time by use of both a ruler and a clock.
In fact, if you do not use a clock, you cannot honestly measure an object because it may change over time.
What is the volume of water in your bath? If you don't tell me the time at which you measured the amount of water, your answer is meaningless.

I doubt that time is really a dimension,
That is merely because you don't know what the word means.

The Holy Bible says that God stretched out the heavens. And we think of that as stretching out the dimensions of height, width, and length, but not the stretching of time.
So now we get to the real reason you don't think its a dimension. You think it might conflict with the Bible.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And we can measure objects that occupy space-time by use of both a ruler and a clock.
In fact, if you do not use a clock, you cannot honestly measure an object because it may change over time.
What is the volume of water in your bath? If you don't tell me the time at which you measured the amount of water, your answer is meaningless.

[b]I doubt tha ...[text shortened]... to the real reason you don't think its a dimension. You think it might conflict with the Bible.

Well if time is related to the other dimensions in the way you claim, that would not necessarily conflict with the Holy Bible. It could account for why when astronomers look far into space they claim they are looking back in time. If the heavens included the dimension of time with space when God stretched out the heavens, then time would be stretched out with the other three dimensions. Therefore, when looking back on the 6 days of creation the time might look like millions and billions of years ago.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
what definition of the word 'dimension' are you working to?

I thought I was clear that I was referring to "dimension" as a measurable quanity that occupies space or includes space.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I thought I was clear that I was referring to "dimension" as a measurable quanity that occupies space or includes space.

then you do not fully understand the meaning of the word.


a dimension can be any co-ordinate the describes a location. if you give a time-travelling alien the longitude and latitude of the birth place of jesus it doesnt stop him turning up a few thousand years late or early.........thats because for this set of co-ordinates to work we need space time...............making space-time a dimension.

Originally posted by josephw
I spent a little time trying to learn about the shape and size of the universe. It's rather complicated. I suppose I could take a month to study it further and try to grasp the astronomical language, but I would prefer to keep it simple.

It looks to me that the universe is about 15 billion light years thick and about 200 billion light years across. Like a ...[text shortened]... ake.

Can anyone give a simple explanation as to the consensus amongst astronomers about this?

If you want to get a headache ...................then just listen to Lawrence Krauss particle physicist explain how big the universe is and how everything can come from no-thing (nothing).

He said........ once upon a time (less than 100 yrs ago) that science believed that there were 6 planets in our galaxy but now they know there are billions of planets and galaxies and universes.

However they didn't say they were wrong (they never do)

The Vedas have been teaching us all for eternity that there are unlimited universes and galaxies and planets...........and one just has to pick up a book about the Vedas to find this out.

The further science goes into chasing an answer for the question (where did everything come from) the more complicated and confusing the atheistic scientists become.

But don't worry..............because one day science will create life and claim themselves God.

This is their foolish quest.

Originally posted by Dasa
If you want to get a headache ...................then just listen to Lawrence Krauss particle physicist explain how big the universe is and how everything can come from no-thing (nothing).

He said........ once upon a time (less than 100 yrs ago) that science believed that there were 6 planets in our galaxy but now they know there are billions of planets and ...[text shortened]... cause one day science will create life and claim themselves God.

This is their foolish quest.

hey dasa, hows things?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
hey dasa, hows things?

Good thanks............just browsing the forum.

Originally posted by Dasa
Good thanks............just browsing the forum.

awesome, watcha been upto, keeping it real veda style?

Originally posted by Dasa
If you want to get a headache ...................then just listen to Lawrence Krauss particle physicist explain how big the universe is and how everything can come from no-thing (nothing).

He said........ once upon a time (less than 100 yrs ago) that science believed that there were 6 planets in our galaxy but now they know there are billions of planets and ...[text shortened]... cause one day science will create life and claim themselves God.

This is their foolish quest.

🙂

For once I agree with you. Except about the Vedas of course! 😉