It appears that some Christians have abdicated their position as sons of God, by ignoring the call to righteousness and condoning a life of sin. The warnings against this course of action are serious
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV)
The Apostles Peter states that Christians who accepts Christ and then revert to a life of sin, is in a worse off position than if he did not know of Christ in the first place.
The Apostle Paul makes similar warnings:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV)
A sorer punishment than death without mercy awaits Christians have trodden Jesus underfoot, by their sins.
Two terrible warnings by Peter and Paul [and there are several more]. But yet you will hear Christians claim:
- they are eternally saved
- non Christians will be tormented forever
- Christians cannot live without committing sin
- righteousness is not necessary.
Where to they get these doctrines from?
Originally posted by Rajk999Who says these things?
It appears that some Christians have abdicated their position as sons of God, by ignoring the call to righteousness and condoning a life of sin. The warnings against this course of action are serious
[i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, ...[text shortened]... ut committing sin
- righteousness is not necessary.
Where to they get these doctrines from?
You do have a habit of twisting peoples words as well as scripture.
Originally posted by KellyJay- they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
Who says these things?
You do have a habit of twisting peoples words as well as scripture.
- non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
- Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
- righteousness is not necessary. - ALL
What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
What scripture did I twist?
Originally posted by Rajk999Quote me when and where did I say that?
- they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
- non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
- Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
- righteousness is not necessary. - ALL
What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
What scripture did I twist?
Originally posted by Rajk999
- they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
- non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
- Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
- righteousness is not necessary. - ALL
What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
What scripture did I twist?
Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
Do you live without committing sin?
Originally posted by Rajk999You seem to have sonship both "eternally saved" as well as being a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever". You also have YOU, KellyJay I assume, as being both a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever" and a "Christian who cannot live without committing sin". Either they are Christians or they are not, care to decide?
- they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
- non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
- Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
- righteousness is not necessary. - ALL
What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
What scripture did I twist?
Originally posted by leunammiNO. I am subject to sin. I do not claim to be saved eternally.Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
Do you live without committing sin?
I await the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ.
Many Christian do not do that. Instead they claim to be saved and to have eternal life already.
Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
Originally posted by divegeesterStatements made by Jesus or the Apostles cannot be blown to pieces.
You're not allowed to ask him that. It's personal and the answer could blow his whole argument to pieces.
However you cannot say the same about church doctrine to which you subscribe.
Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtMaybe you are a johnny come lately on this forum but:
You seem to have sonship both "eternally saved" as well as being a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever". You also have YOU, KellyJay I assume, as being both a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever" and a "Christian who cannot live without committing sin". Either they are Christians or they are not, care to decide?
- sonship is infact a Christian that claims he is saved eternally
- KJ is a Christian that claims that people will be torutred in hell for all eternity
Originally posted by Rajk999No, the scriptures are as you state them. I'd just like you to help me understand how you have managed to live without committing sin?
NO. I am subject to sin. I do not claim to be saved eternally.
I await the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ.
Many Christian do not do that. Instead they claim to be saved and to have eternal life already.
Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
Originally posted by Rajk999You could answer the question posed to you now.
NO. I am subject to sin. I do not claim to be saved eternally.
I await the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ.
Many Christian do not do that. Instead they claim to be saved and to have eternal life already.
Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
Originally posted by divegeesterWhen you face "the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ", what will be judged exactly? Your belief/faith? Or will you be judged on the sincerity and success of your efforts to live your life with as little sin as you possibly can and to try to do what Jesus told you to do?
No, the scriptures are as you state them. I'd just like you to help me understand how you have managed to live without committing sin?
Originally posted by Suzianne
You could answer the question posed to you now.