1. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Sep '16 16:57
    It appears that some Christians have abdicated their position as sons of God, by ignoring the call to righteousness and condoning a life of sin. The warnings against this course of action are serious

    For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV)

    The Apostles Peter states that Christians who accepts Christ and then revert to a life of sin, is in a worse off position than if he did not know of Christ in the first place.

    The Apostle Paul makes similar warnings:

    For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV)

    A sorer punishment than death without mercy awaits Christians have trodden Jesus underfoot, by their sins.

    Two terrible warnings by Peter and Paul [and there are several more]. But yet you will hear Christians claim:
    - they are eternally saved
    - non Christians will be tormented forever
    - Christians cannot live without committing sin
    - righteousness is not necessary.

    Where to they get these doctrines from?
  2. Standard memberKellyJayonline
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    09 Sep '16 17:50
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    It appears that some Christians have abdicated their position as sons of God, by ignoring the call to righteousness and condoning a life of sin. The warnings against this course of action are serious

    [i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, ...[text shortened]... ut committing sin
    - righteousness is not necessary.

    Where to they get these doctrines from?
    Who says these things?
    You do have a habit of twisting peoples words as well as scripture.
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Sep '16 18:371 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Who says these things?
    You do have a habit of twisting peoples words as well as scripture.
    - they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
    - non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
    - Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
    - righteousness is not necessary. - ALL

    What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
    What scripture did I twist?
  4. Standard memberKellyJayonline
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    09 Sep '16 19:00
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    - they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
    - non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
    - Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
    - righteousness is not necessary. - ALL

    What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
    What scripture did I twist?
    Quote me when and where did I say that?
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    09 Sep '16 20:24
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    - they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
    - non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
    - Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
    - righteousness is not necessary. - ALL

    What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
    What scripture did I twist?
    Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others

    Do you live without committing sin?
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    09 Sep '16 21:10
    Originally posted by leunammi
    Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others

    Do you live without committing sin?
    You're not allowed to ask him that. It's personal and the answer could blow his whole argument to pieces.
  7. Standard memberDeepThought
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    09 Sep '16 23:09
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    - they are eternally saved - sonship, checkbaiter, divegeester, josephw
    - non Christians will be tormented forever - sonship, YOU
    - Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others
    - righteousness is not necessary. - ALL

    What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
    What scripture did I twist?
    You seem to have sonship both "eternally saved" as well as being a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever". You also have YOU, KellyJay I assume, as being both a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever" and a "Christian who cannot live without committing sin". Either they are Christians or they are not, care to decide?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Sep '16 00:03
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Quote me when and where did I say that?
    What do you make of the verses by Peter and Paul?
    What scripture did I twist?
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Sep '16 00:06
    Originally posted by leunammi
    Christians cannot live without committing sin - YOU, and others

    Do you live without committing sin?
    NO. I am subject to sin. I do not claim to be saved eternally.
    I await the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ.

    Many Christian do not do that. Instead they claim to be saved and to have eternal life already.

    Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Sep '16 00:081 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You're not allowed to ask him that. It's personal and the answer could blow his whole argument to pieces.
    Statements made by Jesus or the Apostles cannot be blown to pieces.

    However you cannot say the same about church doctrine to which you subscribe.

    Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Sep '16 00:20
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    You seem to have sonship both "eternally saved" as well as being a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever". You also have YOU, KellyJay I assume, as being both a "non-Christian who will be tortured forever" and a "Christian who cannot live without committing sin". Either they are Christians or they are not, care to decide?
    Maybe you are a johnny come lately on this forum but:
    - sonship is infact a Christian that claims he is saved eternally
    - KJ is a Christian that claims that people will be torutred in hell for all eternity
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
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    10 Sep '16 03:14
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Maybe you are a johnny come lately on this forum but:
    - sonship is infact a Christian that claims he is saved eternally
    - KJ is a Christian that claims that people will be torutred in hell for all eternity
    So why claim they are non-Christians?
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    10 Sep '16 04:37
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    NO. I am subject to sin. I do not claim to be saved eternally.
    I await the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ.

    Many Christian do not do that. Instead they claim to be saved and to have eternal life already.

    Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
    No, the scriptures are as you state them. I'd just like you to help me understand how you have managed to live without committing sin?
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    10 Sep '16 04:45
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    NO. I am subject to sin. I do not claim to be saved eternally.
    I await the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ.

    Many Christian do not do that. Instead they claim to be saved and to have eternal life already.

    Do you care to comment on the passages in the opening post.
    You could answer the question posed to you now.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    10 Sep '16 05:081 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    No, the scriptures are as you state them. I'd just like you to help me understand how you have managed to live without committing sin?

    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You could answer the question posed to you now.
    When you face "the righteous judgment of Jesus Christ", what will be judged exactly? Your belief/faith? Or will you be judged on the sincerity and success of your efforts to live your life with as little sin as you possibly can and to try to do what Jesus told you to do?
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