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09 Apr 19
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@FMF
You announced it not me.
You are a poor teacher with poor interpersonal skills.
Then again if you don't want to be taught a specific thing you can always rationalize that its a "poor teacher" teaching you.
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09 Apr 19
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Poor wisdom from Witness Lee? Did you miss this?!
I did not miss that your very childish understanding thinks its clever because you think you sought out something inconsistent.
"The sun signifies Christ...the moon can be considered a figure of the church, the wife of Christ...the stars first signify Christ…although Christ is the real sun, He does not appear as the sun during the present age of night. Rather, He shines as the bright Morning Star."
(The Recovery Version: Footnotes of Genesis)
By collapsing the footnote with ellipses you think you are highlighting logical inconsistencies. However, Christ could be allegoricalized in more than one way.
A rich person like Christ had four diverse biographies to show different aspects of His character.
Matthew - a king
Mark - a slave
Luke - the most normal human man
John - God Himself
The New Testament presents Christ from four angles.
Only someone with immature and limited experience of Christ would complain that these were inconsistent and a reflection of poor teaching.
I think it was Emerson who said
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds ..."
One aspect of Christ is that He is called the sun of righteousness with healing in His wings in the book of Malachi 4:2.
So in pointing to the Christ as the sun is biblical and quite edifying to those seeking His light.
That the saints are seen as stars is nothing so extraordinary. Daniel says the saints of God will shine as the stars for ever and ever. Daniel 12:3.
In the Life Study of Genesis Lee said INDIVIDUALLY the believers may be understood as stars. This one and that one were shining stars in church history.
Collectively they are the reflection of Christ - the Moon.
Now in may not be easy for me to locate a specific verse on this. But in it should not be thought injurious to any Christian to realize that the Church of Christ does not have any real light of herself but reflects that light and truth of her Husband - Christ.
I can't see how it could possibly damage anyone with some maturity to understand an allegory of Christ being the sun and His light shining upon and reflected by the church.
The church, if I recall rightly from Genesis Life Study has at various times been at various stages of illumination like the phases of the moon.
There were ages when the church shone brighter and ages when it shone dimmer. There were the Dark Ages when Catholicism had the Bible locked up and locked away from the common man.
There were even in those dark centuries individual believers who shone as stars in the darkness. The similarity to the natural world is noted. When the moon shines in fullest power of reflection the stars are less visible. When the moon is shining in her least luminary phase the individual stars are more seen .
I see some wisdom in the explanation.
I don't see how such a treatment of the sun, moon, and stars in Genesis could possibly be a damage to any truth loving Christian.
Even if one were to object that too much imagination was being employed, I fail to see how the bottom line is offensive or damaging to anyone's faith.
Christ is brightest.
The church reflects the light of Christ shining on her.
The individuals believers faithfully shine through here and there when the church is not so collectively luminous.
although Christ is the real sun, He does not appear as the sun during the present age of night. Rather, He shines as the bright Morning Star."
There is quite a bit of wisdom I think in this clarification from Witness Lee which I will treat in the post below.
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09 Apr 19
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although Christ is the real sun, He does not appear as the sun during the present age of night. Rather, He shines as the bright Morning Star."
I already showed you that Malachi 4:2 the coming of Christ is the coming of the sun.
And Daniel 12:3 employs language in which the saints as shining stars. Of course Revelation 1:16 I think the overcoming believers are represented by seven stars in the right hand of Christ.
Now if the hobgoblins of little minds cannot handle inconsistency that mind may just require more expanded experience.
When Christ comes the second time He comes as the sun of righteousness with healing in His wings.
For indeed the day comes, burning like a furnace, and all the proud ones and all the ones who act wickedly will be stubble; and the coming day will set them ablaze, says Jehovah of hosts, so that it will not leave them root or branch.
But unto you who fear My name will the sun of righteousness arise with healing in His wings, and you will go forth and leap about like well-fed calves. "
Outwardly, as a power ruling power Jesus Christ is to come. On the one hand the wicked will not be able to stand the heat. On the other hand the elect of Jehovah God receive a healing Christ, a bright Christ, a sun of righteousness after a long age of the worlds unrighteousness.
But Christ first in the church age comes WITHIN the believers into whom He has dispensed the Holy Spirit. And to them this inward presence of Christ is like the Morning Star.
The Morning Star is the bright star signally the dawning of a new day. The symbolism is not too profound.
Jesus Christ WITHIN the receivers of Jesus Christ is as the Morning Star. Because He lives in us who receive Him we are assured the dawning of His kingdom is to come. We have the inward shining of the Morning Star before the outward coming of the Sun of Righteousness shines over the whole world.
"And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; And he will shepherd them with an iron rod as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I have received from My Father.
And to him I will give the morning star. He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. " (Rev. 2:26-29)
He will give to the overcoming saint the inward enjoyment of His presence as an anticipation of the age to come. He is the Morning Star before He comes in righteousness to reign over the earth.
So on one had Christians have Christ as the morning star.
And on one hand it is a dark age before His second coming.
On the other hand we have the shining of His church in various phases as the church travels her pilgrimage through this God opposing world of present.
The paradoxes have to do with Christ inward as indwelling life and Christ outward as the coming King of the kingdom of God over the earth.
And such treatment of these varied aspects by Witness Lee, I feel, are quite wise. You just have to learn more and most of all experience this Christ more.
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09 Apr 19
@sonship saidIsaiah 14:12:although Christ is the real sun, He does not appear as the sun during the present age of night. Rather, He shines as the bright Morning Star."
I already showed you that Malachi 4:2 the coming of Christ is the coming of the sun.
And Daniel 12:3 employs language in which the saints as shining stars. Of course Revelation 1:16 ...[text shortened]... e, I feel, are quite wise. You just have to learn more and most of all experience this Christ more.
“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”
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As you can see with a portion of a footnote to Genesis chapter 1, Witness Lee had a focus on the central matter of the Bible - Christ and the church.
I think these days most of the modern expositions on Genesis are preoccupied with harmonizing what is there with theories of the earth's age.
While, I do some of that, I see much wisdom in teaching about Genesis with a focus consistent with the whole Bible - Christ as divine life central to the revelation and the church, His redeemed people of God as His counterpart.
That is how the Bible closes - the Husband God in Christ and the Wife the New Jerusalem. It is quite good that a teacher would highlight those matters from the very first chapter of the Bible -
Christ the incarnation of God and the church as His counterpart.
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09 Apr 19
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Isaiah 14:12:
“How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”
Here we have Ghost of a Duke very sure that he has uncovered in the 66 books of the Bible a sure inconsistency.
A revelation disclosed over some 1600 years from 40 different authors covering a plethora of different important subjects, to Ghost of a Duke, should read like a computer flowchart.
If Christ is the Morning Star then Lucifer cannot have been call the Son of the Morning or the Daystar.
Isaiah 14:12-15 along with Ezekiel 28:12--18 are two passages that concern what G.H. Pember called "the prophetic past." They are about the pre-adamic fall of the high creature created by God who became Satan the Devil.
The Ezekiel passage briefly unveils the anointed cherubs revolt against the holiness of God.
The Isaiah passage briefly unveils the Daystars rebellion against the authority of God.
Both passages reach back into the pre-adamic age of which we are not told much about since Gods had not created man then and the angelic rulers had some kind of kingdom over the beings of that bygone pre-adam age.
It ended in the earth being judged and becomming waste and ruined as we see it in Genesis 1:2.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1)
But the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep. (v.2) [Recovery Version]
In between verse 1 and verse 2 is an unspecified interval of time. Within that unspecified interval is the career of the Daystar, the son of the morning, the early ruler Satan who was there in the dawn of creation. God created the universe "in the beginning".
So while Lucifer or the Daystar may have been a morning star of that age he is no longer any morning star. And since Christ as God incarnated as a man is the highest ruler for eternity, doesn't it make some since that previous accolades to the former might similarly be addressed concerning the latter.
The highest archangel or anointed cherub Lucifer has failed and God created man and said Let THEM ... have dominion. And Christ incarnated as a man to save them for the disposed Daystar who became Satan deceived the whole world.
Here we see the Daystar the son of the morning proclaiming five "I wills" that he would seek to replace God Himself.
How you have fallen from heaven,
O Daystar, son of the dawn!
How you have been hewn down to earth,
You who made nations fall prostrate!
But you said in your heart;
I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God I will exalt my throne.
And I will sit upon the mount of assembly in the uttermost parts of the north.
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.
But you will be brought down to Sheol,
To the uttermost parts of the of the pit." (Isaiah 14:12-15)
Some Bible teachers don't believe this happened in pre-adamic times. But whenever it happened it is one high angelic like being who was called the son of the morning, the Daystars attempt to overthrow the government of God.
Christ the God-man, who eternally upholds the government of God is the everlasting light. That there might be some similarity in function which call for an allusion to star is understandable.
Ghost should read at least the first ten messages of the Life Study of Genesis by Witness Lee. But it might be helpful (if he wanted help) to read the Bible in the passages that he has submitted.
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09 Apr 19
@sonship saidIn any of his books, does witness Lee endorse your belief in a “fountain of blood”?
Here's a small list of books from the ministry of Witness Lee.
I would like FMF to follow it with his MOST significant threads in this Forum from which readers, he thinks, derived the most positive spiritual help.
Just the first 16 in alphabetical order for a sample:
[quote] [b] Abiding in the Lord to Enjoy His Life
Abraham—Called by God
Administration of the Chur ...[text shortened]... ] of the most significant Threads started by atheist FMF here that were of spiritual help to anyone.
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In any of his books, does witness Lee endorse your belief in a “fountain of blood”?
I have already shown how the Bible itself confirms that the concept of a fountain of redeeming blood is quite orthodox an concept.
A Christian song which speaks of a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel's veins by which sinners may be cleansed from all of their guilty stains, is poetic utterance firmly based on a few connected passages about Christs salvation.
From the Life Study of John by Witness Lee
[my bolding]
1. Typified by Adam's Opened Side
The piercing of the Lord's side was typified by Adam's opened side (Gen. 2:21). Adam's side was opened and a rib was taken out. Here, Jesus' side was opened and blood and water flowed out from this opened side.
2. Flowing Out Blood for Redemption
The blood which flowed out of the Lord's side is for redemption (Heb. 9:22; 1 Pet. 1:18-19; Rom. 3:25). Hebrews 9:22 says, “Without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” The blood here signifies the redemptive aspect of Christ's death (John 1:29). The blood which flowed out for our redemption was typified by the blood of the Passover lamb (Exo. 12:7). As Zechariah 13:1 indicates, this redeeming blood formed a fountain for the washing of sins. Hallelujah for such a fountain! This fountain is not for drinking but for washing. The blood which flowed out was also for purchasing the church (Acts 20:28). The blood which formed a fountain for the washing of sins was the price of the purchase of the church.
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=15E8D926FD
@sonship saidZechariah 13:1 - In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
As Zechariah 13:1 indicates, this redeeming blood formed a fountain for the washing of sins. Hallelujah for such a fountain! This fountain is not for drinking but for washing. The blood which flowed out was also for purchasing the church (Acts 20:28).
Acts 20:28 - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
09 Apr 19
@sonship saidHebrews 9:22 - And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
The blood which flowed out of the Lord's side is for redemption (Heb. 9:22; 1 Pet. 1:18-19; Rom. 3:25
Peter 1:18-19 - Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Romans 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
I was curious to see if you were adding something to the Bible. So I looked them up.