Originally posted by FabianFnas
So, the only thing he said was "It is finished", nothing more. The rest is a interpretation, yours as good as mine.
What he meant we don't know anything about. This quote wasn't written down at that time, but decennia after, relying only on memory of the unknown writer.
You give me an easy one comparing your divine experience with a toilet. I declin ...[text shortened]... sing this freebie, as a courtesy. I wouldn't use the term toilet at all, flushed or not. No lie.
So, the only thing he said was "It is finished", nothing more. The rest is a interpretation, yours as good as mine.
Did I say that the only thing He said was
"It is finished" ? Of what use is it to jump to the conclusion that Jesus said nothing else ?
His own words indicate that He considered His death to be redemptive and that AFTEWARDS He would be resurrected.
Right here:
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:17,18)
And many, many other places confirm that He expected to do a work that would finish with His crucifixion but He would rise again afterwards to continue other aspects of His total ministry.
What he meant we don't know anything about. This quote wasn't written down at that time, but decennia [sic] after, relying only on memory of the unknown writer.
We do know what He meant.
Some may not LIKE the implications of what He meant.
And these may seek refuge from what He meant in all manner of safe havens of obscurity, higher textural criticism, and other speculations.
But plenty of us know exactly what He meant by
"It is finished."
We know ENOUGH to be saved by God.
We have ADEQUATE insight into His words to come into contact with the living God through Christ.
We may not EXHAUSTIVELY appreciate
"It is finished". But we certainly have ADEQUATE insight to make a decision to trust His redemptive work on our behalf.
And in a culture where word of mouth tradition was highly prized, it is easy for us to under appreciate how well people committed things to memory. Oral transmition with accuracy was highly prized.
So the reason of there not being a video or tape recorder handy is really not a good reason to doubt the accuracy of recollection of the disciples.
Lastly, the evidence is strong that the apostles were quite insistent and vigilant that what the Master had actually taught would be passed on WITHOUT corruption. Wishful thinking on the skeptic's part is that they were lazy minded and haphazard about accurately relating what Jesus had said.
And example of this is seen in the Apostle John discriminating what was an erroneous saying that circulated among the disciples which Jesus did NOT actually SAY.
" This word therefore went out among the brothers, that that disciples would not die, Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but IF I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you ?
This is the disciple who testifies concerning these things, and the one who has wrotten these things; and we know that his testimony is true." (John 21:23,24)
So you see that the writer of the Gospel of John is exacting, diligent and specific to correct a misunderstanding about what Jesus actually
SAID as opposed to what merely circulated among the Christian brothers about what He supposedly said.
So we have good reason to believe they were more concerned with an accurate transmission of the actual deeds and words of Jesus then the higher critics imagine.
You give me an easy one comparing your divine experience with a toilet. I decline using this freebie, as a courtesy. I wouldn't use the term toilet at all, flushed or not. No lie.
Do not break your arm patting yourself on the back that you have been lenient.
Compared to the holiness, righteousness, glory, and moral perfection of Jesus Christ not only were my accumulated sins like an unflushed toilet, but yours also.
It is quite another matter to not REALIZE that compared to the Son of God your life is indeed like a toilet that has been used and not flushed for years.
Christ is the Divine Drano, among many many other things.
You may not realize what has accumulated in your heart and is still building up.
The wisest thing Jesus ever said.
09 Jun '14 13:12
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