The wisest thing Jesus ever said.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
None of us have any need to post here or answer questions
put to us .. but we do. It's called discussion.

Now you made a wild claim about the wisdom of Jesus and I have given you
the opportunity to substantiate that claim. Which you have not.

So I guess your credibility takes another nose-dive.

This is all of course based on the assumption that you would recognize wisdom when you heard it. There is scarce little indication that you would appreciate wisdom especially the wisdom of pointing people towards God.

Since that is exactly where you do not want to go, why should we expect you to recognize as wise any words turning a man's heart in a Godward direction ?

If a person wants to make sure he arrives at any place except California, of course he could complain that there was not one helpful sign on the road, which points to California.

The atheist's main problem with God is not intellectual but disdain for inordinate self love and autonomy which God respresents to him, a destruction to.

It is no surprise that a man like Jesus, whose every word points to His Father, would speak all words which the atheist would despise as unwise.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]Have you ever had real fun and still felt empty inside?

No.

Have you ever gone out under a moonlite night of beauty and asked "Why is this not enough to make me happy?"

No.

Have you ever been in the midst of a party where lots of enjoyment is being loudly had, yet within you still feel like something is missing in you? ...[text shortened]... e fails there I'm afraid. Your 'Arm Chair Psychology' is so far wide of the mark it's laughable.[/b]

No.

Denial.

sonship:
Have you ever gone out under a moonlite night of beauty and asked "Why is this not enough to make me happy?"

No.

The specifics may vary vastly, but I think you're in denial nonetheless.

sonship:
Have you ever been in the midst of a party where lots of enjoyment is being loudly had, yet within you still feel like something is missing in you?

No.

Specifics may vary. But I think you're in denial just the same.

Three fails there I'm afraid. Your 'Arm Chair Psychology' is so far wide of the mark it's laughable.

You been doing a lot of laughing lately. Laugh harder.
You know comedians always put up a jolly appearance. Like the funny Joey Bishop who said he never knew what it was to laugh.

And I think an atheist never knew what it was to feel like a total human being. In denying God you deny a part of your own humanity.

Of course C.S. Lewis when he was an atheist would laugh at the thought of searching for God too. He said you might as well have been talking about a mouse searching for a cat.

Be that as it may, there is a reflection in man of God's searching for the man also. We are dissatisfied because He is dissatisfied. We are at peace when He is at peace.

Now, you go and laugh it up some more now, real hardy.

Originally posted by sonship

No.

Denial.

sonship:
Have you ever gone out under a moonlite night of beauty and asked "Why is this not enough to make me happy?"

No.

The specifics may vary vastly, but I think you're in denial nonetheless.

[quote]
sonship:
Have you ever been in the midst of a party where lots of enjoyment is being lo ...[text shortened]... at it was to feel like a total human being. In denying God you deny a part of your own humanity.

if you have been having fun and still had an empty feeling inside, if you have looked at the night sky and wondered why it didnt make you happy, if you have been at a party where everybody was having fun, but you still feel that something is missing..........

...............then i would suggest you suffer from depression.

Originally posted by sonship
This is all of course based on the assumption that you would recognize wisdom when you heard it.

This is in fact a critical insight. One you should possibly have thought about prior to making the original claim.

The thing about wise sayings is that the vast majority of them only seem wise, because we do recognize the wisdom in them because we already know the wisdom in them. Maybe we haven't thought of phrasing them that way, or have never articulated them before, but we do understand the concept. So it is really difficult to find some 'wise words' that are not actually intuitively understood by yourself, and quite probably most other people too. Often we label someone 'wise' because he his good at articulating those concepts that everyone intuitively knows.

I guess a truly wise person is someone who says things that most people do not know to be true, and would have to be convinced that they were true. So for the purposes of this thread you would probably not only have to find a quote that you believe is wise, but also convince the rest of us that it is wise ie it would probably not be obviously so to most people.

Originally posted by twhitehead
This is in fact a critical insight. One you should possibly have thought about prior to making the original claim.

The thing about wise sayings is that the vast majority of them only seem wise, because we do recognize the wisdom in them because we already know the wisdom in them. Maybe we haven't thought of phrasing them that way, or have never articul ...[text shortened]... convince the rest of us that it is wise ie it would probably not be obviously so to most people.

So for the purposes of this thread you would probably not only have to find a quote that you believe is wise, but also convince the rest of us that it is wise ie it would probably not be obviously so to most people.

I would first like to point out that the New Testament goes way beyond saying that the Son of God spoke wise words. It says that He Himself is wisdom to us from God. He Himself IS Wisdom.

"But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption." (1 Cor. 1:30)

Here we see being put INTO Christ as a living realm is being put INTO wisdom to man. And that wisdom is of three components - "righteousness and sanctification and redemption" .

Christ Himself then, is WISDOM to man from God.
He is the wisdom of being justified before God as righteousness.
That is in relation to the believer's past.
He is the wisdom of being sanctified in His ongoing salvation.
That is in relation to the present for the believer.
He is the wisdom of having our physical bodies redeemed in resurrection and glorification.
That is in relation to the believer's future.

I know you're not interested in any of this. Regard it as not good discussion then. I accept that. It is for those readers who will be helped by it.

So, not only Christ spoke wisdom. Christ IS wisdom to man from God. But you benefit from it mostly by allowing God to put you into the living Christ as a realm and sphere.

"But of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God ..."

So the apostle also says "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" are IN Christ.

"In whom [Christ] all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden. This I say that no one may delude you with persuasive speech." (Col. 2:3,4) .

Paul was very bold to state that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Christ. I concur completely.

If you really want to understand the universe you have to study carefully the Person of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by sonship

The atheist's main problem with God is not intellectual but disdain for inordinate self love and autonomy which God represents to him, a destruction to.

It is no surprise that a man like Jesus, whose every word points to His Father, would speak all words which the atheist would despise as unwise.

You have the wrong idea about atheists entirely.

Atheists don't have a problem with God.
They are absolutely affirmed with his non-existence.

The only "problems" atheists may have is comprehending and understanding the views of those who do believe in a God, as they differ considerably from their own beliefs.
Thus spiritual debates are formed.

How can one despise something which they have no belief in?

Stop trying to convince people that you know how an atheists' mind works.

Originally posted by sonship

No.

Denial.

sonship:
Have you ever gone out under a moonlite night of beauty and asked "Why is this not enough to make me happy?"

No.

The specifics may vary vastly, but I think you're in denial nonetheless.

[quote]
sonship:
Have you ever been in the midst of a party where lots of enjoyment is being lo ...[text shortened]... We are at peace when He is at peace.

Now, you go and laugh it up some more now, real hardy.

I know your vanity and ego doesn't like to hear it, but you're just plain wrong on all counts, again.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
if you have been having fun and still had an empty feeling inside, if you have looked at the night sky and wondered why it didnt make you happy, if you have been at a party where everybody was having fun, but you still feel that something is missing..........

...............then i would suggest you suffer from depression.

if you have been having fun and still had an empty feeling inside, if you have looked at the night sky and wondered why it didnt make you happy, if you have been at a party where everybody was having fun, but you still feel that something is missing..........

...............then i would suggest you suffer from depression.

Some clinical specialists would indeed describe this as depression.
I do not object to that.

What I would say is that the root of this "depression" is that a legitimate part of one's total humanity needs to be awakened. It is deadened. It is damaged. It is "dead". It is in need of being reborn.

"That which is born of the Spirit is spirit" said Jesus.

The comatose human spirit needs to be regenerated through the touch of the Holy Spirit which is God Himself.

The damaged human spirit needs to be enlivened. We might even say it needs to be resurrected.

But I do not object to poor perplexed psychological specialists labelling this as "Depression". And there may be "depression" for other reasons as well. Sometime it could be a chemical embalance.

I am not saying all depression is due to a spiritual matter.
A born again Christian can also suffer from clinical depression.

So PLEASE do not come back at me saying you know some born again Christians who suffer depression. I know that. And I still stand by the concept of a inner thirst for completion in being joined to the Lord.

Originally posted by sonship
Okay. If you think I am wrong that's OK.
I have to run away for a bit.

I don't think you're wrong, I know you are wrong. We are after all talking about my thought and feelings.

Originally posted by sonship

if you have been having fun and still had an empty feeling inside, if you have looked at the night sky and wondered why it didnt make you happy, if you have been at a party where everybody was having fun, but you still feel that something is missing..........

...............then i would suggest you suffer from depression.

Some clinic ...[text shortened]... . And I still stand by the concept of a inner thirst for completion in being joined to the Lord.

are you saying that all non-christians suffer from depression like symptoms caused by their non belief in the christian god.

as most people do not admit to feeling this 'depression' you say we have. do you think that we are all lying? and why do we lie about having this spiritual 'depression' yet are able to say when we suffer from clinical depression??

Originally posted by stellspalfie


as most people do not admit to feeling this 'depression' you say we have. do you think that we are all lying? and why do we lie about having this spiritual 'depression' yet are able to say when we suffer from clinical depression??[/b]

are you saying that all non-christians suffer from depression like symptoms caused by their non belief in the christian god.

Man needs the Spirit of the living God in the human spirit.
That is what I am sure Jesus Christ says.

I will not be drawn into a discussion about depression in a medical sense.
Man thirsts for God. For man was created to have fellowship with God.

On all five continents, in every clime and time, man was created to have fellowship with God. Subdividing the issue into a culture by culture argument or a religion by religion issue is moot.

What people need deeply is a relationship with a PERSON. That is an unusual Person and a supernatural Person, but a Person.

East, West, North, South, Modern, Ancient, whatever. Man thirsts for this supernatural Person to complete and fill his heart whether he understands this or doesn't understand.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] [b]are you saying that all non-christians suffer from depression like symptoms caused by their non belief in the christian god. [quote]

Man needs the Spirit of the living God in the human spirit.
That is what I am sure Jesus Christ says.

I will not be drawn into a discussion about depression in a medical sense.
Man thirsts for ...[text shortened]... atural Person to complete and fill his heart whether he understands this or doesn't understand.[/b]

I will not be drawn into a discussion about depression.


too close to the bone for you?

Originally posted by sonship
I would first like to point out that the New Testament goes way beyond saying that the Son of God spoke wise words. It says that He Himself is wisdom to us from God. He Himself IS Wisdom.

So you are backing off from actually finding any wise words, and are now instead making the claim that his words were wise because the Bible says so.
But lets not forget the original claim: that the words would be recognised as wise even if the story of Jesus was wholly fictional.
So was this writer of the fictional Jesus story wise because he was ingenious enough to put in his story the claim that his words were wise? And also, is he unique in using this trick? Have no other writers had the audacity to call their work of fiction 'wise words'?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]I will not be drawn into a discussion about depression.


too close to the bone for you?[/b]

I'll go further. Man longs to be like Jesus.

That is because Jesus is normality.
He doesn't just long for a SOMETHING that he does not know what it is.

I think he will only have complete fulfillment in being like Jesus Christ.
That is Jesus Christ is what God MEANT by "Human Being."

Of course the good news is that in God's full salvation the saved ARE conformed to the image of Jesus Christ for an eternal dwelling with and in God.

You want to be RIGHT, right?

Well, there is nothing wrong with a man or woman wanting to be RIGHT.
The MOST right Person who ever lived in Jesus the Son of God.

You want to be free.
You want to be in the enjoyment of life.

Who was the MOST free ? Jesus was the most free. He was eventually even free from death itself. That is really free.

Christ is free from death and free from sin. That's what we all want.
We need saving to arrive there.

So though it misaimed, contorted, warped, and convoluted, the untwisted longing in man is to be like the most NORMAL human being. That is Jesus.