The worst sin.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Matt 25

Matthew 25:34 "Then will the King say to them on his right hand, come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungered, and you gave me meat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. Naked and you clothed me, I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me."

So tell me, the thief on the cross that died next to Jesus, which of these did he do to inherit eternal life? Perhaps he was a "good deeds" theif?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you spot the difference between Youngs and Yours ?

I spot the difference, but the meaning is intended to be the same: "The hope of life age-during" (YLT) is the Holy Spirit (v. 5) imparted to the believer at the cleansing of the new birth (regeneration) when we are declared righteous because of faith. Similarly, "confidence that we will inherit eternal life" (NLT) is precisely that "hope" which the Holy Spirit gives to the believer upon regeneration: "As a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit. So we are always confident" (2 Cor. 5:5). "For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children" (Rom. 8:16).

Originally posted by whodey
Matthew 25:34 "Then will the King say to them on his right hand, come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungered, and you gave me meat; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. Naked and you clothed me, I was sick, and you visited me; I was in priso ...[text shortened]... sus, which of these did he do to inherit eternal life? Perhaps he was a "good deeds" theif?

Isnt Matt 25 crystal clear?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Isnt Matt 25 crystal clear?

Isn't whodey's question crystal clear? Which good works did the thief on the cross perform?

You stated that "most Christians know that you have to work to get salvation". However, this is clearly contradicted by Christ himself who grants the thief salvation on repentance alone.

Originally posted by darvlay
Isn't whodey's question crystal clear? Which good works did the thief on the cross perform?

You stated that "most Christians know that you have to work to get salvation". However, this is clearly contradicted by Christ himself who grants the thief salvation on repentance alone.

Im not sure what works was done by the thief. The Bible does not say. So Whodey's question was infantile to say the least. But I am not going to question the judgement of Christ like you and Whodey seem to be doing. I would call that treading on dangerous ground.

What is clear to me is what CHrist said in Matt 25 and in many other places thoughout the NT - :

CHRIST WANT GOOD WORKS, and there is no way anyone can twist that basic truth.

If a thief has 10 minutes to live and Christ detected genuine repentence he is in a position of authority to promise him salvation. I cant see any contradiction.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im not sure what works was done by the thief. The Bible does not say. So Whodey's question was infantile to say the least. But I am not going to question the judgement of Christ like you and Whodey seem to be doing. I would call that treading on dangerous ground.

What is clear to me is what CHrist said in Matt 25 and in many other places thoughout the NT ...[text shortened]... ntence he is in a position of authority to promise him salvation. I cant see any contradiction.

The thief was being crucified. Do you think it is possible that he satisfied any of the so-called necessary works prescribed by Matthew 25?

Obviously, Christ "wants" good works but are they necessary for salvation? This act of Christ clearly detailed in the Gospels implies that man can repent and be accepted into "paradise" without the performance of good works, thus they are not necessary and your statement that to achieve salvation you must perform good works is false.

I do not doubt that a longtime Christian who puts forth the minimum effort in their performance of works should not be necessarily considered a "Christian" given his refused opportunities to perform these works, but to state that works are a necessary condition for salvation is absolutely false. A deathbed repentance is no different than that which occurs to the thief on the cross next to Christ during his crucifixion.

And, to be clear, I have no problem questioning the judgment of Christ, I do not prescribe to Christianity and its beliefs whatsoever.

Originally posted by whodey
So the suicide bombers have faith in what God says? Sure, they may listen to others in terms of what God's will is but do they know there Masters voice as Christ stated.

John 10:4 "And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him; for they know his voice. And the stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; fo ...[text shortened]... that all others come to steal, kill and destroy. Does this not sound like a suicide bomber?

Despite what you may believe, Muslims believe in the same God that you do. There is only one God, the one that sent Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed.

The Suicide bomber listens to the interpretations made by some mullah, just as you listen to the interpretations made by some clergy. He has faith that God wants him to sacrifice himself. Faith has different levels, and the suicide bomber may be misguided, but he has more faith than you and I, because he makes the ultimate sacrifice. Are you willing to die for your faith?

Originally posted by darvlay
Isn't whodey's question crystal clear? Which good works did the thief on the cross perform?

You stated that "most Christians know that you have to work to get salvation". However, this is clearly contradicted by Christ himself who grants the thief salvation on repentance alone.

You are ignoring the very clear facts in Mat 25, and are using deductive reasoning in the case of the thief. That is a dangerous path. The people who were crucifyng the thief were also crucifying Jesus. How right they were in their assessments of the thief, we have no idea. For all we know, the thief may be pure at heart. If he were not he would not have recognised the station of Jesus. Mat 25 is factual. The thief story is guess work. I would not hang my salvation on guess work.

By the way, did you notice that Jesus said "TODAY" you will be with me in pradise? I thouht Jesus was dead for three days. Just food for thought.

Originally posted by Varqa
You are ignoring the very clear facts in Mat 25, and are using deductive reasoning in the case of the thief. That is a dangerous path. The people who were crucifyng the thief were also crucifying Jesus. How right they were in their assessments of the thief, we have no idea. For all we know, the thief may be pure at heart. If he were not he would not have recog ...[text shortened]... you will be with me in pradise? I thouht Jesus was dead for three days. Just food for thought.

Well said. How can an exception void the rule ?
Anyway, Darvlay does not care about being a Christian so he is just being argumentative. Here is a parable demonstrating what becomes of those who habitually fail to do good works:

Luke 16 :
19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be fed with the [crumbs] that fell from the rich man`s table; yea, even the dogs come and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham`s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted and thou art in anguish.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.
27 And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father`s house;
28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 But Abraham saith, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, if one rise from the dead.

Originally posted by Varqa
[b]Despite what you may believe, Muslims believe in the same God that you do. There is only one God, the one that sent Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed.

Lets be clear about one thing, Christians follow the teachings of Christ and Muslims follow the teachings of Mohammad. One can deny such accusations but it is the plain truth all the same.

As far as Moses and the prophets go, Christ taught that they spoke of him in Luke 24:27 and John 5:46. Moses spoke of him in Deuteronomy 18:15-19 as being a great prophet like himself that would come. It was foretold that he would arise from the house of Jesse in Isaiah 11:1-5, Jeremiah 23:5, Psalms 89:3-4 and fulfilled in Matthew 1 and Luke 1:27. He would be born in Bethlehem as foretold in Micah 5:2, he would be born of the virgin as fortold in Isaiah 7:14, he would be a priest after the order of Melchisedek foretold in Psalms 110:4, the Messiah would come before Israel loses its right to judge her own people as foretold in Genesis 49:10, the Messiah would come while the temple is still standing as foretold in Malachi 3:1, Psalms 118:26, Daniel 9:26, Zecharia 11:13, Haggai 2:7-9, he would preform many miracles as foretold in Isaiah 35:5-6, the gentiles would recieve him as his own people would reject him as foretold in Isaiah 8:14, 28:16, 49:6, 50:6, 60:3 and Psalms 22:7-8, 118:22, and a man crying in the wilderness would prepare the way of the Messiah as foretold in Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, the precise timing of the Messiah recorded in Daniel 9:24-27, he would enter Jerusalem riding a donkey as foretold in Zechariah 9:9, he would be betrayed as foretold in Psalms 41:9, the price for his betrayal would be pieces of silver as fortold in Zechariah 11:12, he would not open his mouth to defend himself as foretold in Isaiah 53:7, he would be pierced as foretold in Zecharia 12:10, he would be crucified as foretold in Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53, his bones would not be broken as foretold in Psalms 22:18, he would be given vinager and gail to drink as foretold in Psalms 69:21, he would be resurrected from the dead as foretold in Psalms 16:10, he would ascend up into the heavens as foretold in Psalms 68:18, he would be called the Son of God as foretold in Psalms 2:7.

It is a rather impressive resume to say the least. So who is this Messiah and why is it of such importance to make sure that his credentials are in order so as to insure that he is who he says he is? What did he do that was so important like his counterpart Moses? Was it not to die for our sins? If not, this trail of prophesies seems to have little to no meaning whatsoever. If he did not die for our sins what did he accomplish? Was it a failed attempt to reach out to the Jews? Was it to prepare the way for Mohammad. This brings us to Mohammad. What prophesy refers to him? I do find prophesies mentioning a false prophet. Could he be the one?

Originally posted by Varqa

The Suicide bomber listens to the interpretations made by some mullah, just as you listen to the interpretations made by some clergy. He has faith that God wants him to sacrifice himself. Faith has different levels, and the suicide bomber may be misguided, but he has more faith than you and I, because he makes the ultimate sacrifice. Are you willing to die for your faith?[/b]

I would say that Mohammad, although claiming to speak for the God of Abraham, did not really hear from him. Your example of the suicide bombers is case in point. Lets compare the martryes of Islam and of Christianity shall we? In the early days of the faith, were there any martryes who fought back? Were there any who comitted suicide? You rightly say that suicide bomebers are misguided. So are you saying that the mullahs are misguided as well? If so, I would agree 100% with this statement. The bigger question is where do the mullahs get their inspiration? Is it from God? I think not.

You may point out that in later years there were those who killed in the name of Christ. However, I would say that they are as misguided, if not more so because Christ said to love your enemies. Conversly, Mohammad gave no such mandate.

Originally posted by Varqa
I think my Christian friends think believing in Jesus is permission to sin. It is a free ticket to heaven which you do not have to earn. It is a get out of jail card, because after all we are all sinners, but those who believe in Jesus are forgiven. He died for our sins. He paid the penalty for it, and now all we have to do is believe. Get it?

Repent and sin all you want, or is it repent and sin no more? I get confused. 😀

It is repent and do your best to sin no more.

Originally posted by Ruppster1
Believing in Jesus also means trying to emulate the way he lived , which was a sinless life. Something that mere humans cannot do. With the help of the Holy Spirit we try and fail, and try again and get a little better, sin a little less. That is what God wants, God wants us to strive to be better.

exactly!!!
😀

Originally posted by Varqa
That is beautiful, Raj. I can not imagine the requirements for entering into heaven can get any clearer. It is not a list of commandments like the OT, but rather it is a different approach. We fulfill our obligations by treating our fellow humans the way we would treat Jesus Himself.

You must note that these are the things that Jesus did Himself, records o ...[text shortened]... ho crucified him. He died in this manner so that by following His example we may gain salvation.

Thenk God fofr his glory!

Originally posted by musicismyworld
Thenk God fofr his glory!

Thank God for His glory!


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