The worst sin.

Originally posted by whodey
What work and how much of it? How do I meet my quota?

Matt 25

30 He that is not with me, is against me; and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say to you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
32 And whoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33 Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by its fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man, out of the good treasure of the heart, bringeth forth good things: and an evil man, out of the evil treasure, bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say to you, That for every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account in the day of judgment

Originally posted by Rajk999
A small portion of Christians believe that. Most Christians know that you have to work to get salvation.

Rather, works are proof that a person is saved. It is quite another thing to claim that one must work in order to be saved, which is false. Please, try to understand this distinction...

Originally posted by Rajk999
Matt 25

That is beautiful, Raj. I can not imagine the requirements for entering into heaven can get any clearer. It is not a list of commandments like the OT, but rather it is a different approach. We fulfill our obligations by treating our fellow humans the way we would treat Jesus Himself.

You must note that these are the things that Jesus did Himself, records of which can be found through out the Gospels. He was the perfect exemplar of how we must live our lives. You do good unto others regardless of what they do to you. He gave us the perfect example by dying on the cross, still praying for those who crucified him. He died in this manner so that by following His example we may gain salvation.

Originally posted by Varqa
That is beautiful, Raj. I can not imagine the requirements for entering into heaven can get any clearer. It is not a list of commandments like the OT, but rather it is a different approach. We fulfill our obligations by treating our fellow humans the way we would treat Jesus Himself.

You must note that these are the things that Jesus did Himself, records o ...[text shortened]... ho crucified him. He died in this manner so that by following His example we may gain salvation.

He died in this manner so that by following His example we may gain salvation.

Again, salvation is gained by faith, not works. Works are the subsequent proof that a person is saved, but people are declared righteous by God through faith, not works.

Therefore, it is not true that salvation is 'gained' by works.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]He died in this manner so that by following His example we may gain salvation.

Again, salvation is gained by faith, not works. Works are the subsequent proof that a person is saved, but people are declared righteous by God through faith.

Therefore, it is not true that salvation is 'gained' by works.[/b]

Faith makes the works possible. We live in this materialistic world in which everyone is doing their best to maximize profit. We are faced with decisions every day in which we have to choose between being honest or dishonest. If you live by the notion that everyone you meet is Jesus, you will end up giving away all your posessions and even your life by the end of the day.

How can we give to others without expecting anything in return? BY FAITH.

Originally posted by Varqa
Faith makes the works possible. We live in this materialistic world in which everyone is doing their best to maximize profit. We are faced with decisions every day in which we have to choose between being honest or dishonest. If you live by the notion that everyone you meet is Jesus, you will end up giving away all your posessions and even your life by the end of the day.

How can we give to others without expecting anything in return? BY FAITH.

Exactly, thus works are proof that a faith is genuine.

However, the distinction must be made that God first declares a person righteous through faith, not works. God's declaration comes before any works are manifest.

Originally posted by musicismyworld
What would you consider the worst sin you could commit? Adultery? Stealing? Murder? You might be surprised by the answer the Bible gives.

The worst sin—and the one with the most far-reaching consequences—is this: to refuse to believe in Jesus Christ.

Actually the bible says this....


Matt 22:36-40
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 "This is the first and great commandment.
39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
(NKJ)


By logical conclusion, I would say the greatest sin is to love some thing other than God with all your heart.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Exactly, thus works are proof that a faith is genuine.

However, the distinction must be made that God first declares a person righteous through faith, not works. God's declaration comes before any works are manifest.

Works are not "proof that a faith is genuine." I know many who do works but do not have a righteous heart. I also know many who claim to have "faith" but do not have a righteous heart. They cry 'Lord, Lord', but their actions betray a heart that is anything but righteous.

What is faith but the belief that living a life that is righteous is true life? That living a life that is not righteous is not life at all, but death?

What is salvation but freedom from sin? Freedom from an egocentric view which is at the root of all sin? It is the egocentric view from which we need to be saved.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
..............God first declares a person righteous through faith .............

God makes no such declaration.

Originally posted by Rajk999
God makes no such declaration.

Of course He does! Praise God that He does!

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"God .... declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus" (Rom. 3:26).

"God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous" (Rom. 3:24).

"David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it" (Rom. 4:6).

"But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised" (Rom. 4:10-11).

"The Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith" (Gal. 3:8).

"Because of his grace (God) declared us righteous and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life" (Titus 3:7).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]Of course He does! Praise God that He does!

----------------

"God .... declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus" (Rom. 3:26).

"God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous" (Rom. 3:24).

"David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared ...[text shortened]... us righteous and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life" (Titus 3:7).[/b]

The translation you are using is misleading. All your quotes are totally different, and I can see why you believe what you believe.

eg according to my KJ Bible Titus 3:7 says:

"That, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. "

Your Bible says:
"Because of his grace (God) declared us righteous and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life"

Someone re-wrote that Bible to suit your beliefs. Seems like youall do the same thing the JWs do.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The translation you are using is misleading. All your quotes are totally different, and I can see why you believe what you believe.

eg according to my KJ Bible Titus 3:7 says:

"That, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. "

Your Bible says:
"Because of his grace (God) declared us righteous and ga ne re-wrote that Bible to suit your beliefs. Seems like youall do the same thing the JWs do.

The translation you are using is misleading.

Actually, the KJV's translation of Titus 3:7 is inferior in this instance. The literal translation from the original Greek reads thus:

"That having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during" (Young's Literal Translation).

Someone re-wrote that Bible to suit your beliefs. Seems like youall do the same thing the JWs do.

Wrong. The KJV is inferior in certain instances. Consult the original Greek if you need proof.

In the JW's case, the bible was rewritten to exclude scriptural evidences of Christ's Godhood. EDIT: Even going so far as to edit the original Greek!

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]The translation you are using is misleading.

Actually, the KJV's translation of Titus 3:7 is inferior in this instance. The literal translation from the original Greek reads thus:

"That having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during" (Young's Literal Translation).

Someone re-w ...[text shortened]... ral evidences of Christ's Godhood. EDIT: Even going so far as to edit the original Greek!

Can you spot the difference between Youngs and Yours ?

Originally posted by Varqa
In that case, the suicide bombers have more FAITH than all of us put together.

So the suicide bombers have faith in what God says? Sure, they may listen to others in terms of what God's will is but do they know there Masters voice as Christ stated.

John 10:4 "And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him; for they know his voice. And the stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; for they know not the voice of the strangers. Verily, verily, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are theives and robbers; but the sheep did not hear them.....The theif comes not, but for to steal and to kill, and to destroy; I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly"

I suppose you could place your faith in things other than the one true God. For example, if an Imam tells you to go blow yourself up for Allah you can take him at his word or reject it. However, if they knew the voice of their God they would know whether or not to follow. Also notice that all others come to steal, kill and destroy. Does this not sound like a suicide bomber?