Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Found this quote ostensibly taken from a Watchtower Society publication entitled "Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?":
[quote]"[b]We need to face the fact that the theory of evolution serves the purposes of Satan. He wants people to imitate his course, and that of Adam and Eve, in rebelling against God. This is especially so now ...[text shortened]...
Are there any non-JWs here who hold a similar postion? On what do you base your position?[/b]
(Thnx for the lols dude)
Yes, I hold a similar position.
The reason for this is that I have found the Watchtower publication to be so overtly humourous that I just can't take most of it seriously. That would be the main overall reason/base.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Found this quote ostensibly taken from a Watchtower Society publication entitled "Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?":
[quote]"[b]We need to face the fact that the theory of evolution serves the purposes of Satan. He wants people to imitate his course, and that of Adam and Eve, in rebelling against God. This is especially so now ...[text shortened]...
Are there any non-JWs here who hold a similar postion? On what do you base your position?[/b]
Unfortunately, much evidence from neuroscientific and psychological research in recent years suggests that when people are presented with evidence counter to their beliefs they tend to hold on more tightly to their beliefs, rather than dump them. I suspect we're all guilty of this at times.
The Watchtower people are doing the same thing - the evidence is pretty overwhelming, and so to hold on rationally to their belief, they need to invent some reason to counter the evidence. And here it is ...
Originally posted by karoly aczel (Thnx for the lols dude)
Yes, I hold a similar position.
The reason for this is that I have found the Watchtower publication to be so overtly humourous that I just can't take most of it seriously. That would be the main overall reason/base.
Whew. Your response initially scared me. I guess I could have phrased my last two questions more clearly. I was looking to see if anyone other than JWs held the position that "the theory of evolution serves the purposes of Satan" and that "the intent is defraud [one] of eternal life". But based on the rest of your response, I'm thinking that you don't.
Originally posted by amannion Unfortunately, much evidence from neuroscientific and psychological research in recent years suggests that when people are presented with evidence counter to their beliefs they tend to hold on more tightly to their beliefs, rather than dump them. I suspect we're all guilty of this at times.
The Watchtower people are doing the same thing - the evidence is p ...[text shortened]... ly to their belief, they need to invent some reason to counter the evidence. And here it is ...
Several months ago I read the following article on how that concept applies to political beliefs:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=1
Here's an excerpt:
The problem is that sometimes the things they think they know are objectively, provably false. And in the presence of the correct information, such people react very, very differently than the merely uninformed. Instead of changing their minds to reflect the correct information, they can entrench themselves even deeper.
“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
However, I have to take exception to your saying that it is to "hold on rationally to their belief". There's nothing rational about it.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Several months ago I read the following article on how that concept applies to political beliefs:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=1
Here's an excerpt:
[quote]The problem is that sometimes the things they think they know are objectively, provably false. And in the presence of the correct information ...[text shortened]... hat it is to "hold on rationally to their belief". There's nothing rational about it.
Yeah, no I meant 'rationally' for the person themselves.
I don't think anyone out there is going to believe something they know is idiotic and groundless. But if they can convince themselves that it does make sense, then they'll hold to that belief.
Whether how they convince themselves is actually rational or not, they'll believe that it is 'rational'.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Found this quote ostensibly taken from a Watchtower Society publication entitled "Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?":
[quote]"[b]We need to face the fact that the theory of evolution serves the purposes of Satan. He wants people to imitate his course, and that of Adam and Eve, in rebelling against God. This is especially so now ...[text shortened]...
Are there any non-JWs here who hold a similar postion? On what do you base your position?[/b]
John 10:10 (King James Version)
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Originally posted by amannion Yeah, no I meant 'rationally' for the person themselves.
I don't think anyone out there is going to believe something they know is idiotic and groundless. But if they can convince themselves that it does make sense, then they'll hold to that belief.
Whether how they convince themselves is actually rational or not, they'll believe that it is 'rational'.
I think I understand what you're saying, but it seems like an odd way to think of it. While the individual may think their belief is rational, the fact is that it is not. How the individual views it doesn't change this.
Seems like the following more accurately depicts the situation: "and so to hold on to their belief, they need to invent some [irrational 'reason'] to counter the evidence".
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Found this quote ostensibly taken from a Watchtower Society publication entitled "Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?":
[quote]"We need to face the fact that the theory of evolution serves the purposes of Satan. He wants people to imitate his course, and that of Adam and Eve, in rebelling against God. This is especially so now .. ...[text shortened]... i]Originally posted by ThinkOfOne[/i]
Care to answer the questions at the end of the OP?
I do not agree with your premise, or maybe more exactly, the premise you believe the Watchtower Society holds, that any pro-evolution argument is necessarily the tool of Satan. Not only do I not agree, I reject such a notion out-of-hand.
I am not a JW and I do not hold a similar position. In fact, what I believe is termed "Evolutionary Creation". Take note that this is separate from "theistic evolution".
Originally posted by Suzianne I do not agree with your premise, or maybe more exactly, the premise you believe the Watchtower Society holds, that any pro-evolution argument is necessarily the tool of Satan. Not only do I not agree, I reject such a notion out-of-hand.
I am not a JW and I do not hold a similar position. In fact, what I believe is termed "Evolutionary Creation". Take ...[text shortened]... f
Edit: Stupid editor will not let me edit the format to how I want it to show up. ðŸ˜
I have looked through the first page of this. If I get the chance (which I probably won't) then I will read all 12 pages.
Theistic Evolution and Evolutionary Creation both mean essentially the same thing. The web pages author just prefers the second term because it makes the noun Creation more dominant than the adjective Evolutionary.
Whichever term you use, it is saying that the creator created the universe and then created us via the mechanism of Evolution.
I believe this is essentially the Pope's position. I maintain that it is a God of the Gaps position.
Originally posted by Suzianne I do not agree with your premise, or maybe more exactly, the premise you believe the Watchtower Society holds, that any pro-evolution argument is necessarily the tool of Satan. Not only do I not agree, I reject such a notion out-of-hand.
I am not a JW and I do not hold a similar position. In fact, what I believe is termed "Evolutionary Creation". Take f
Edit: Stupid editor will not let me edit the format to how I want it to show up. ðŸ˜
It certainly isn't my premise. There's no "maybe" about it. It's pretty clear that is a belief of the Watchtower Society, however. A topic of the thread is whether or not an individual who believes the premise can rationally engage in a discussion on evolution. Another topic is if there are non-JWs who hold that premise, how did they arrive at that premise. Care to comment on either of those?
You seem to want to discuss something unrelated. Can you summarize the position? Read the first page, but can't justify reading all twelve. Also what distinction do you make between "Evolutionary Creation" and "Theistic Evolution". Sources I came across that mention both seem to see them as synonymous.
The paranoia that seems to be appealing to Christians is attractive to groups like the KKK, and other extremist nuts.
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18 May '11 23:27
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Found this quote ostensibly taken from a Watchtower Society publication entitled "Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?":
[quote]"[b]We need to face the fact that the theory of evolution serves the purposes of Satan. He wants people to imitate his course, and that of Adam and Eve, in rebelling against God. This is especially so now ...[text shortened]...
Are there any non-JWs here who hold a similar postion? On what do you base your position?[/b]
How about,
"We need to face the fact that the Jehovah's Witness Organisation serves the purposes of Satan. He wants people to imitate his course, and that of Adam and Eve, in rebelling against God. This is especially so now, since the Devil has only “a short period of time” left. (Revelation 12:9-12) Thus, believing in the JW religion would mean promoting his interests and blinding oneself to the wonderful purposes of the Creator. How, then, should we feel about this? We feel indignant toward those who try to defraud us of money, or even of a few material possessions. We should feel even stronger indignation toward the doctrine of the JWs and its originator, since the intent is to defraud us of eternal life.—1 Peter 5:8."
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne In what way do you see this verse as applicable to the OP?
Deception is one of the main ways Satan achieves his goals. The deception of the theory of evolution is only one way he "kills" souls by deceiving.
Good to see you again my friend, God bless.
Ok so it's clear the Witnesses believe that evolution is one of many tactics that Satan uses to turn ones away from God and his existance and how and why we a are here. Believing in evolution would in turn not teach God's viewpoint of the future for us and the hope that he holds out for those who are looking for that in their life's.
But obviously some here don't feel evolution or whatever diluted creation/evolution mix one can come up with is detrimental to their relationship to God. Some feel anything goes and God will accept whatever we come up with.
But a few scriptures I've quoted never seem to get a comment on at all, and I keep wondering why? It seems they are completely ignored and I just wish that someone here would make a comment on these and why such a thing as evolution which is not from God, would not be from Satan as it completely trashes God and the Bible?
Notice these scriptures and the description of Satan's position in this world.......
Luke 4:5-8 (New Living Translation)
5 Then the devil took him up and revealed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 “I will give you the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them,” the devil said, “because they are mine to give to anyone I please. 7 I will give it all to you if you will worship me.”
8 Jesus replied, “The Scriptures say,
‘You must worship the Lord your God
and serve only him.’[a]”
John 12:31 (New Living Translation)
31 The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.
Revelation 12:9 (Amplified Bible)
9 And the huge dragon was cast down and out--that age-old serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, he who is the seducer (deceiver) of all humanity the world over; he was forced out and down to the earth, and his angels were flung out along with him.
Ephesians 6:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 2:2 (New International Reader's Version)
2 You used to live as sinners when you followed the ways of this world. You served the one who rules over the spiritual forces of evil. He is the spirit who is now at work in those who don't obey God.
1 John 5:19 (New International Reader's Version)
19 We know that we are children of God. We know that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
So again I ask..why would evolution not originate with Satan whom these scripture cleary explain is the ruler of this world?
Theory of evolution serves Satan
17 May '11 19:20
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