Originally posted by googlefudge I disagree with that analysis of science but concentrating on the 'room for god' aspect, you don't need to prove there is no god, for every point/particle in the universe. You only need (for the moment) that there is no god controlling the earth and surrounding solar system. Other things like proof that all of our experiences/feelings and thoughts are ex ...[text shortened]... to fit god into to fit with this leaves god being a fairly pointless and pathetic being.
Are we past that point? I don't agree. I think you're clinging to some concepts of God, but why restrain yourself to them if you're an atheist?
I see we'll just run around in circles, anyway. My arguments before, in my opinion, apply again to your new post.
Originally posted by googlefudge However you are still left with the logical fallacy that by definition there can be no outside.
Incidentally the Auditors from the discworld spring to mind at this point.
I am not left with any fallacy. I never claimed there was an outside, nor have I denied it. It is actually irrelevant to my point even though I disagree that, by definition, the universe is "everything".
Originally posted by Palynka I am not left with any fallacy. I never claimed there was an outside, nor have I denied it. It is actually irrelevant to my point even though I disagree that, by definition, the universe is "everything".
the word universe means everything. this is the meaning used in cosmology (please not that the size of the 'universe' has increased through out history as our knowledge of it has increased).
Originally posted by Palynka Are we past that point? I don't agree. I think you're clinging to some concepts of God, but why restrain yourself to them if you're an atheist?
I see we'll just run around in circles, anyway. My arguments before, in my opinion, apply again to your new post.
I have no concept of what god is as I dont think there is one. my point is that there are people who believe that there is one and I was saying that to fit a god into the physical universe we see wround us that god must be pretty pathetic. to the extent that we couldn't possibly know of it's existance. if god can't manipulate the world around us or our thoughts then anything we know as god has to be a creation of our own minds as the real thing is too pathetic to have acheived it.
Originally posted by googlefudge the word universe means everything. this is the meaning used in cosmology (please not that the size of the 'universe' has increased through out history as our knowledge of it has increased).
Considering models like String Theory or MWI have yet to be disproven I think it's better to abstain from such definitive conclusions.
Originally posted by googlefudge How about; 'There is absolutly no evidence of the supernatural of any kind, and if the supernatural existed you would expect evidence to abound, thus god is almost certainly a fictional creation of the human mind' ?
Originally posted by Palynka I never said otherwise, but you are talking about induction, not deduction.
All natural sciences are ultimately inductive. Put in a simple way, most of the processes of deduction are during scientific experiments and applied to samples. The need to extrapolate the results to the universe outside the sample is inductive, the assumption that it has worked t ...[text shortened]... e "room" would become. I'm an atheist because I feel that "room" is already small enough.
So you are happy not knowing what you don't know, and with that are
able to make such a claim?
Kelly
Originally posted by Palynka I am not left with any fallacy. I never claimed there was an outside, nor have I denied it. It is actually irrelevant to my point even though I disagree that, by definition, the universe is "everything".
Everything in the universe is everything in the universe, that does
not mean that everything is in the universe.
Kelly
Originally posted by Palynka Considering models like String Theory or MWI have yet to be disproven I think it's better to abstain from such definitive conclusions.
I think here you are confusing the universe with the 'visible universe'. if M theory turns out to be true and we live on a 'brane' floating through some higher dimensional hyperspace which contains other 'brans' of varying dimensions then the universe is this higher dimensional space and not just our 'brane'.
Originally posted by KellyJay Everything in the universe is everything in the universe, that does
not mean that everything is in the universe.
Kelly
universe means the sum totality of everything including the space and time it is imbeded in. by definition you cant have anything outside it, if we find stuff outside of what we currently think of as the universe then we expand our veiw of what the universe is.
Originally posted by spiritmangr8ness What evidence does an Atheist have that God does not exist? Get the question right!
I agree, inorder to find a piece of data one must have the filter one
wants to use for the search to correctly look for the information
required. What filter is being used to find a God they think isn't real?
Kelly
Originally posted by googlefudge universe means the sum totality of everything including the space and time it is imbeded in. by definition you cant have anything outside it, if we find stuff outside of what we currently think of as the universe then we expand our veiw of what the universe is.
Yep, if you find something you didn't think was there you expand the universe...so how do you find something you don't think is there?
Kelly
There is no God because my evidence says..........
27 Jul '06 16:43
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