There is no God because my evidence says..........

Originally posted by KellyJay
I agree, inorder to find a piece of data one must have the filter one
wants to use for the search to correctly look for the information
required. What filter is being used to find a God they think isn't real?
Kelly

what filter do you use to look for information to prove gods existance (or simply to convince yourself of gods existance). do you have ANY data that is evidence of the supernatural?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Personal experience for one, and human history for another.
Kelly

what personal experience have you had that proves gods existance (atleast to you)? History contains no proof of god mearly proof that people have beleived in god/gods.

Originally posted by KellyJay
So you are happy not knowing what you don't know, and with that are
able to make such a claim?
Kelly

What's wrong with accepting the evidence that we have?

Originally posted by spiritmangr8ness
What evidence does an Atheist have that God does not exist? Get the question right!

It wouldn't harm you to read the whole thread and not just the last posts.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yep, if you find something you didn't think was there you expand the universe...so how do you find something you don't think is there?
Kelly

people (scientists) have throughout history had to accept findings from there experiments which wen't against everything they 'believed' about the way the world worked. you do every experiment you can think of test your theories against those experiments and then use them to develop more tests and so on and so fourth. if there is an experiment that will tell you then eventually it will be done.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Everything in the universe is everything in the universe, that does
not mean that everything is in the universe.
Kelly

In which case you simpply haven't taken everything into account. Once you do, you realise that all that extra stuff is actually part of the universe, you just forgot it before.

Originally posted by spiritmangr8ness
What evidence does an Atheist have that God does not exist? Get the question right!

That is the wrong question to ask. The correct question is what evidence is there that God does exist? The answer to that question is none.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Everything in the universe is everything in the universe, that does
not mean that everything is in the universe.
Kelly

Exactly my point. Although that doesn't necessarily include God.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
That is the wrong question to ask. The correct question is what evidence is there that God does exist? The answer to that question is none.

It is a valid question, to which the answer is that the absence of evidence IS evidence of absence. In fact, it is the only one for something logically possible that doesn't exist.

Originally posted by spiritmangr8ness
What?😠

I suppose I understand the angry face. How dare a mere man make a claim about the existence or non-existence of God based on his subjective experience, right?

Tell me, then...why do you believe in God? Is it because the Bible says he exists, and that it is the Word of God? That's painfully circular. Perhaps you've personally felt the power of the Holy Spirit, or a great weight was lifted from your shoulders once you decided to accept Jesus as your own personal saviour.

I don't see how either of those options is any less subjective than the atheist who annouces god does not exist.

Originally posted by googlefudge
what evidence does a theist have that god does exist? occams razor rules.

A problem should be stated in its basic and simplest terms. In science, the simplest theory that fits the facts of a problem is the one that should be selected. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known.


Now Googlefudge, are you saying that, (A God) and (No God) are competing theories, and that it is simpler to select no God because from the side of the room where your standing pressure is placed upon the believer to deliver proof of the existence of God from a scientific construct. I scoff at that. You have to come up with something better than this. Look at the emergence of mathematics in society. This is a logical extrapolation; order is the first law of God. Genesis 1: 1-31 What is interesting to me is that as a scientist you are aware of the correlation between society and math. Here's a quote "Numbers are non-physical phenomena and need make no reference to physical systems for their existence. But neither are they inherently-existent entities from the 'Platonic realms'. Numbers are dependently-related manifestations of the working of the mind."

- Sean Robsville

Originally posted by spiritmangr8ness
A problem should be stated in its basic and simplest terms. In science, the simplest theory that fits the facts of a problem is the one that should be selected. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is ...[text shortened]... ers are dependently-related manifestations of the working of the mind."

- Sean Robsville

No, God is non parsimonious. God cannot be tested for, extrapolated out of the system, or in anyway verified. We simply cannot actually prove god exists. Physical phenomena on the other hand can be shown to exist. In terms of explaining things existance is quite a critical condition that must be met.

Let's for a second, take a simple example.

You do your laundry and hang it out on the washing line. After a couple of hours you go out and your clothes are dry. Now you have two possibilities. (A) the energy from the sun and wind caused the evaporation of water, and you clothes dried, or (B) God did it.
So which do you choose? By your logic and reasoning both would be equally probable. I would choose A every time.

This is a limited example of course, but the principle could be applied to any situation. Do balls fall back to earth when kicked in the air because of the gravitational attraction between two bodies described by Professor Newton, or is God right there, pushing the ball back to earth at exactly the correct rate to fool us into believing gravity to be the correct explanation?

God is either devious, or not real.

Originally posted by spiritmangr8ness
A problem should be stated in its basic and simplest terms. In science, the simplest theory that fits the facts of a problem is the one that should be selected. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is ...[text shortened]... ers are dependently-related manifestations of the working of the mind."

- Sean Robsville

I am not saying that there is a theory that god exists and that it is comparable to a scientific explanation.
I am saying that the world around us appears to us (and our finest measuring instruments) to follow a set of rules 'laws of nature' if you will. Now either this is because the world really follows a set of rules, or that there is some entity (called for these purposes a Cartesian devil) which is causing all these phenomena to behave exactly like they were following a set of rules. The two are internally indistinguishable, however under these circumstances by deducing and using the 'laws of nature' which at least appear to operate in both, you can make useful predictions about what will happen under certain circumstances (i.e. science and technology) or you can simply say god/preferred spiritual entity/s did it. One is self evidently more useful than the other. According to Occam’s razor that option is also the one considered most likely (it is simpler). And also under these circumstances as there is no way of telling which you are in as they are identical, there is no point believing in god as the results from living in each is identical, and secular.

Originally posted by googlefudge
what filter do you use to look for information to prove gods existance (or simply to convince yourself of gods existance). do you have ANY data that is evidence of the supernatural?

I will ask this a 2nd time how do you define supernatural?
Can I show you the supernatural, if I can, does that make it...natural?
Kelly

Originally posted by googlefudge
what personal experience have you had that proves gods existance (atleast to you)? History contains no proof of god mearly proof that people have beleived in god/gods.

Yep, since you are not going to pull a trace of God's DNA out of a
rock or bone the only way I believe you will see God is in life.
Kelly