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Originally posted by Rajk999You're still ignorant.
Yep .. ignorant but following Christ.
You .. not ignorant and following Witness Lee ..😀
I fear that in ten years you will even be more ignorant.
And any given paragraph of Witness Lee contains tons more enlightening truth then any post I have read from your "ministry" of errors.
Originally posted by Rajk999You may think I quote Watchman Nee simply for the sake of quoting Watchman Nee.
You constantly make statements about Christ and eternal life etc which are not in the Bible and often contrary to the Bible ... yet Im the ignorant one..
I can understand why you are angry... how dare someone oppose Watchman Lee !! 😀
I may quote Nee, but it is not for Nee's sake.
It is for the sake that God had provided through some faithful servants the needed light for this age of the church.
You don't even know that it is the overcomers that cause the great tribulation to occur.
Since this is all mumbo jumbo to you I won't dignify your ignorant attitude to help you understand.
Why do you follow me around like a little barking doggy? Go start your own thread and I'll stay out of it, if you stay out of the one I start here.
Originally posted by sonshipJust like how you post for others to read and NOT FOR ME [your words recently], I post FOR OTHERS TO READ AS WELL.
You may think I quote Watchman Nee simply for the sake of quoting Watchman Nee.
I may quote Nee, but it is not for Nee's sake.
It is for the sake that God had provided through some faithful servants the needed light for this age of the church.
You don't even know that it is the overcomers that cause the great tribulation to occur.
Since this is a ...[text shortened]... oggy? Go start your own thread and I'll stay out of it, if you stay out of the one I start here.
Got it ?
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Originally posted by Rajk999
You constantly make statements about Christ and eternal life etc which are not in the Bible and often contrary to the Bible ... yet Im the ignorant one..
I can understand why you are angry... how dare someone oppose Watchman Lee !! 😀
I can understand why you are angry... how dare someone oppose Watchman Lee !!
What you are opposing is the Bible teaching about co-kings reigning with Christ.
In your New Testament there is this book called Revelation. It is about the end of the age and the culmination of God's eternal purpose. In chapter five you'll find a verse that says some believers will reign on the earth with Christ.
" You were slain and have purchased for God by Your blood men out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made them a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth." (Rev. 5:9b,10)
This is "mumbo jumbo" if I explain it. And this is false doctrine according to your blindness.
And then it is to be blamed on Watchman Nee.
It is quite logical to take this passage WITH others which show that co-reigning with Christ is a reward of those who overcome. And it will not be the common portion of all believers at least in the one thousand year millennial kingdom.
"If we endure, we will also reign with Him ...." (1 Timothy 2:2a)
The Apostle Paul wrote that, not me or Watchman Nee. Since reigning is conditional upon overcoming through endurance and faithfulness in living Christ, we have to understand the reigning on the earth of the saints in Revelation 5:9 as conditional.
Stop whining that this understanding is just blind allegiance to Watchman Nee if you cannot refute it.
Originally posted by sonshipIm 'ignorant' because I cannot be contaminated by your doctrine. Here is why:
You're still ignorant.
I fear that in ten years you will even be more ignorant.
And any given paragraph of Witness Lee contains tons more enlightening truth then any post I have read from your "ministry" of errors.
Christ sheep hears no other voice but that of Jesus Christ himself.
I am immune to your false doctrines.
I am not impressed with the tons of 'enlightening truth' of others.
I flee from the voice of strangers.
I hear only Christ.
Originally posted by sonshipYou are pretending that you do not understand my point. Like I said already .... there are overcomers. There are millions of people who have been or are now IN CHRIST, from Adam to now. These will reign as kings and priests with Christ. Nobody is arguing that.I can understand why you are angry... how dare someone oppose Watchman Lee !!
What you are opposing is the Bible teaching about co-kings reigning with Christ.
In your New Testament there is this book called [b]Revelation. It is about the end of the age and the culmination of God's eternal purpose. In chapter five you'll find a ve ...[text shortened]... hining that this understanding is just blind allegiance to Watchman Nee if you cannot refute it.[/b]
Where does the Bible say that Christ does needs more and more in order for him to return,,... like you claim.
The Bible says it the opposite way - that before the return of Christ there will be great departure from truth and from Christ.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Tell me how you can blame Watchman Nee for the Bible showing that the chaos of the great tribulation exactly follows the rapture of the manchild in Revelation 12..
Just like how you post for others to read and NOT FOR ME [your words recently], I post FOR OTHERS TO READ AS WELL.
Got it ?
What causes war in heaven is the rapture of a collective group of overcomers.
And that rapture is immediately followed by Satan being limited to roam only on the earth.
That causes the great tribulation of three and one half years to commence.
"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.
Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage,
knowing that he has only a short time." (See Revelation 12:11,12)
The overcomers who compose the manchild go up and because of their overcoming Satan comes down for good upon the earth. And for how long? For thirty a thousand two hundred and sixty days.
"And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod: and her child ws caught up to god and to His throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days." (vs. 5,6)
After the rapture of the manchild, a corporate entity, the great tribulation is CAUSED to happen because -
"the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time"
That short time is the short time of the great tribulation. And that collective manchild reigns with Christ with an iron rod of power just as He will reign. For they will be co-kings.
Compare Revelation 2:26,27 with Psalm 2:8,9 and Revelation 19:15.
Christ reigns and shepherds the nations with a rod of iron.
And His overcomers co-reign with Him shepherding the nations with a rod of iron.
Why blame your ignorance of this on some blind allegiance to Watchman Nee?
You're just ignorant of the teaching of the Bible, that's all.
If you have a better interpretation of the biblical facts here, I haven't seen it.
Crying "mumbo jumbo" or "blind following of your leader Watchman Nee" just doesn't cut it.
It is the revelation of the Holy Bible you're ignorant about.
Originally posted by sonshipWhere does the Bible say that Christ needs more and more to come to him, in order for him to return,,... like you claim.
Tell me how you can blame Watchman Nee for the Bible showing that the chaos of the great tribulation exactly follows the rapture of the manchild in [b]Revelation 12..
What causes war in heaven is the rapture of a collective group of overcomers.
And that rapture is immediately followed by Satan being limited to roam only on the earth.
That causes the ...[text shortened]... hman Nee" just doesn't cut it.
It is the revelation of the Holy Bible you're ignorant about.[/b]
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Originally posted by Rajk999
You are pretending that you do not understand my point. Like I said already .... there are overcomers. There are millions of people who have been or are now IN CHRIST, from Adam to now. These will reign as kings and priests with Christ. Nobody is arguing that.
Millions are in Christ. but not all who are saved in Christ will reign with Christ.
Read my keyboard. Not everyone who is IN CHRIST will be rewarded with the responsibility to reign with the Man on the throne immediately following His second coming.
We will not know who will be chosen to co-reign until the judgment seat of Christ which PRECEDES the coming down of Christ and the millennial kingdom.
Where does the Bible say that Christ does needs more and more in order for him to return,,... like you claim.
Revelation 17 and 19 show that of those who are in Christ, the called and chosen and faithful will accompany Him to defeat Antichrist and co-reign with Him.
That is not every believer who is IN CHRIST. What OUGHT to be and what WILL BE are not the same.
If what OUGHT TO BE and what WILL BE were identical then there would not be the repeated warning to CHRISTIANS to overcome.
The Bible says it the opposite way - that before the return of Christ there will be great departure from truth and from Christ.
Briefly above, I showed you how the rapture of some overcomers is the thing which absolutely CAUSES the Devil to be cast down for three and one half years. That is the short time. And that is exactly the time of the great tribulation. It is not seven years. It will be three and one half years.
Originally posted by Rajk999
Where does the Bible say that Christ needs more and more to come to him, in order for him to return,,... like you claim.
Where does the Bible say that Christ needs more and more to come to him, in order for him to return,,... like you claim.
The premise of your question is that I am saying that more and more people SAVED is the trigger determining Christ's second coming.
But I am speaking of quality of the ready not merely the number of those saved.
Millions of Christians will miss the first rapture. And they were saved yet will pass through the great tribulation.
I said, millions of Christians will not be watching and ready when Christ suddenly comes to snatch the watching and ready believers away.
And those who are left will be the majority of the church. And they will pass through the great tribulation to be raptured latter at its end.
No, I do not know that I have a guarantee that if I am alive on the earth at that time, I will be among the remnant of ready ones to be stolen away. But I live as if He could come at any moment, much of the time. And that is exactly what He taught us to do.
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The Bible says it the opposite way - that before the return of Christ there will be great departure from truth and from Christ.
Think about what you are saying.
A great departure from the truth in the end times does not DICTATE that none will be OF the truth.
THINK on it for a moment, PLEASE.
I wrote this in a rough spirit to a troublesome Rajk999
It is the revelation of the Holy Bible you're ignorant about.
Now I would hasten to add that many who are ignorant of these specifics may still benefit from them, IF they are abiding in Christ according to what He has shown them.
In other words - knowledge of doctrinal truths alone is no automatic guarantee to overcome in Christ.
The "organic" enjoyment in living through Him avails. "For me to live is Christ" Paul showed us.
It helps to live Christ when you have a vision of what Christ is doing often.
"Without a vision the people run wild."