@yo-its-me saidIt's got nothing to do with the Bible; our species was getting along just as well before it, or any other religious 'teachings', and Hindus, Muslims, Atheists....etc get along just as well now without it, and anyone who thinks that Christianity has been a universal power for the good of humanity hasn't read enough history books.
This makes more sense then what FMF is saying.
I can see your logic here.
It fits with what I think of when I think of cave men too.
There's a development in the Bible too, from old to new.
Perhaps there's truth in both.
To return to the subject, we are apes with big brains, and with the ability to imagine, good things and bad things, but imagination it remains, until and unless we act upon it. The idea that there is some superior force or being poking around in our heads looking for bad thoughts are just the paranoid ramblings of some guilt - ridden, power - obsessed cult.
Next time I'll tell you what I really think of the Catholic Church.....I know, not all Christians are Catholics, but the echoes are there, and you can think what you like about me for writing these words, nobody's ever going to know....
@indonesia-phil saidI don't agree that it's religion/religious books that causes wars. It's people using religion/religious books. People can use religion/religious books for peace too.
It's got nothing to do with the Bible; our species was getting along just as well before it, or any other religious 'teachings', and Hindus, Muslims, Atheists....etc get along just as well now without it, and anyone who thinks that Christianity has been a universal power for the good of humanity hasn't read enough history books.
To return to the subject, we are ape ...[text shortened]... e, and you can think what you like about me for writing these words, nobody's ever going to know....
Putting thoughts to one side, for the time being. Can I ask you who you think is the criminal in a war?
Take the atomic bomb for example, there are lots of people to choose from- the scientists/ the funders of the science/ the person who put the idea out there in the first place/ the person who decided that was the one way to get Japan to stop/ the person who gave the go ahead/ the ones who loaded it onto the plane/ the volunteer pilot who dropped it... the list is longer than that I'm sure. Or would more people have died overall, over all of humanity if it hadn't been dropped? Is the crime how many people died or how they died (Japan war camps were particularly horrible).
Anything you say about the Catholic Church, I will accept as your valued opinion. I am not Catholic. I find that version of Christianity perverse for a number of reasons.
@FMF
Re atoms.
That's the science, that there was a big bang. It was a Greek philosopher Democritus who first said it, as far as history goes, a few hundred years before Jesus. And the science supports it.
The Big Bang Theory is the leading explanation for how the universe began. The others are eternal inflation or an oscillating universe, but both are concentrating on the atoms. The Big Bang theory is that there was an infinitely hot and dense single point that inflated and stretched over a long period of time into the cosmos we know today. There's no scientific explanation for what caused the single point to bang, except that maybe two atoms collided together.
For me, the science fits with the book of Genesis. Brian Cox asks 'why do you want any more?'
I think the answer is, we just do. We hope there's a reason for all this.
Anyway- I've never heard of any science that explains where our inner being comes from. Science can explain what atoms are in us, that's it. So I was saying- if you don't believe we were created, do you believe the inner, knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to test a truth, etc all comes from the atoms?
@star-luck-key saidI happen to believe that Holocaust deniers are some of the worst scum of the earth. 6 million human beings died at the hands of the Third Reich and there are actual people who deny this particular brand of evil ever existed. If this is your philosophy, then you are already dead to me.
@divegeester
You should not take so much stock in The Bible. Please do not misunderstand me.
You obviously believe in Jesus. So do I. & The Holy Spirit & God.
As far as The Bible goes, it does seem like it's been influenced by animal's or other species.
Now I can tell you that I have read The Bible cover to cover 1x & at least 1-2 x's random readings.
T ...[text shortened]... & or robbing some one innocent".
Because we are entitled to defend ourselves & others. & should.
@suzianne saidI didn't bother reading his monologue.
I happen to believe that Holocaust deniers are some of the worst scum of the earth. 6 million human beings died at the hands of the Third Reich and there are actual people who deny this particular brand of evil ever existed. If this is your philosophy, then you are already dead to me.
Glad I didn't waste my energy.
@yo-its-me saidYeah, probably for the best.
I didn't bother reading his monologue.
Glad I didn't waste my energy.
@yo-its-me saidOur understanding of consciousness stands on the frontier of human knowledge and science. Neuroscience has shown that neurons are fundamental to consciousness and that aspects of our conscious experience are rooted in specific patterns of neural activity and the connectivity between neurons. But I think there is still much more for us to explore and discover.
I've never heard of any science that explains where our inner being comes from. Science can explain what atoms are in us, that's it.
@yo-its-me saidTo be clear, it's not that I "don't believe we were created". Nor do I believe "we were not created". I am open to the possibility. But I think we simply do not know. We can but speculate. I believe that stuff like "Genesis" is mere speculation.
So I was saying- if you don't believe we were created, do you believe the inner, knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to test a truth, etc all comes from the atoms?
However, I am not convinced by it or, indeed, any such attempt [that I have come across] to anthropomorphize a creator entity that might have brought the universe into existence.
If there is a creator entity, I think the nature of the universe may be the best understanding of that entity that we have, and if this is so, then various fields of science are currently expanding our knowledge of the nature of the universe and, at the same time, arguably the nature of creation/a creator entity.
These various fields of science that are expanding our knowledge, to my way of thinking, do not include theology.
@yo-its-me saidWhether it "all comes from the atoms" or "God did it", I do not know. But personally, I prefer to forego a 'counting angels on the head of a pin approach' [where one settles for some off-the-shelf theological package deal or other] and take a look at what our capacities are and how they may have affected how we have evolved.
do you believe the inner, knowing what is right and what is wrong, how to test a truth, etc all comes from the atoms?
Our moral compasses seem to me to be formed by both nature and nurture. Both are essentially impossible to quantify.
"Nurture" is a unique set of circumstances and factors in each person's case. And there's no denying that "nature" is a bit of a mystery as is the degree to which it is responsible for the moral compass we end up with.
I think you are inclined to see that mystery and explain it in supernatural terms, and that is your prerogative.
@yo-its-me said"Where does our inner being come from?"
I've never heard of any science that explains where our inner being comes from.
I think "inner" here means that it is unique and is only perceived and experienced by us, individually.
And I think "being" here means having the personal agency needed to make decisions and interact with other beings.
I think your "inner being" comes from your cognitive capacity to gain exclusive access to your unique personal narrative [i.e. memory] and also from your unique interpretation of the significance of every single experience that makes up that narrative.
I think your "outer being" is exhibited when your "inner being" interacts with others.
@star-luck-key saidHe heard that there was no way any Jews were gassed in Europe. & that it was proven. Because the only place on this planet you can gas a human to death is the United States of America.
Because we are entitled to defend ourselves & others. & should.
Germany does NOT have "gas chambers" to gas humans to death.
Gas chambers require "air tight" "vacuum sealed" rooms. Where the doors are like on a submarine.
The Jew initially claimed that the Nazis or Nazzarethens gassed them to death in 16 different concentration camps.
1 by 1 each 1 was proven to be incapable of gassing any human to death. They did however have delousing chambers. Not so different than a shower stahl. Only it killed lice & harmless to humans.
Now if Jews are lice, then ok they may have an argument. If they are human, then they must be truthful.
This isn't even all that difficult to find the truth.
1 Jew did. He went to Auswitz, Poland as they were the last of the original 16 concentration camps that supposedly gassed humans to death. He said originally he was going to find out that of course they gassed humans to death. But almost as soon as he got there the opposite started to reveal its self.
He, "a Jew", concluded that it was a lie about any humans being gassed to death by Nazis/Nazzarethens.
Only The United States of America to this date has the ability to gas humans to death. No other country has this type of facility. It is a fact that should be easily confirmed.
Making a "vacuum sealed room" for the purpose of gassing a human to death is not exactly cheap.
& any other country with such should know if they do or not.
It seems to me that you have disappeared down one of the internet's most dreadful rabbit holes.
@star-luck-key saidDon’t talk to me.
@divegeester
You should not take so much stock in The Bible. Please do not misunderstand me.
He heard that there was no way any Jews were gassed in Europe. & that it was proven. Because the only place on this planet you can gas a human to death is the United States of America.
Germany does NOT have "gas chambers" to gas humans to death.
Gas chambers require "air tight" "vacuum sealed" rooms. Where the doors are like on a submarine.
The Jew initially claimed that the Nazis or Nazzarethens gassed them to death in 16 different concentration camps.
1 by 1 each 1 was proven to be incapable of gassing any human to death. They did however have delousing chambers. Not so different than a shower stahl. Only it killed lice & harmless to humans.
Now if Jews are lice, then ok they may have an argument. If they are human, then they must be truthful.
This isn't even all that difficult to find the truth.
1 Jew did. He went to Auswitz, Poland as they were the last of the original 16 concentration camps that supposedly gassed humans to death. He said originally he was going to find out that of course they gassed humans to death. But almost as soon as he got there the opposite started to reveal its self.
He, "a Jew", concluded that it was a lie about any humans being gassed to death by Nazis/Nazzarethens.
Only The United States of America to this date has the ability to gas humans to death. No other country has this type of facility. It is a fact that should be easily confirmed.
Making a "vacuum sealed room" for the purpose of gassing a human to death is not exactly cheap.
& any other country with such should know if they do or not.
Below is a link to an article explaining which German company (wh/BTW still exists today) manufactured and supplied the poison gas to Nazi extermination camps, such as Auschwitz.
http://www.wollheim-memorial.de/en/zyklon_b_en_2
Wiki has a long list of other companies involved in construction and financing of mass extermination:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust
These included the construction of mobile gas vans.
So, clearly, rubber seals were being manufactured on a large scale.
<<
Engineers worked to develop the technology for mass death. When the Soviets entered Auschwitz-Birkenau, they found records that detailed the construction of the crematoria, including precise information about costs as well as calculations of how many corpses each furnace could incinerate in a single day. The Russians captured four of the engineers who had designed and built the furnaces for a company called Topf and Sons and interrogated all four men. The interrogation of Kurt Prüfer, one of the four, included the following exchange:
Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematorium?
A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and the crematorium there was a connecting structure.
Q. Did you know that in the gas chambers and the crematoria there took place the liquidations of innocent human beings?
A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were subsequently incinerated in the crematoria. . . .
>>
The above is quoted from:
https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/technology-mass-murder
@moonbus
I don't think @star-luck-key's problem is so much the Holocaust, but rather that his narcissism renders him oblivious to the sheer malignancy of what he propagates.
Whether one offers facts, as you have done, a declaration of disgust [as Suzianne has done], or a not entirely groundless ad hominem, as I am doing here, I don't think it matters.
Either way, our pushback will only serve to deepen his sense of validation and importance.