Originally posted by FreakyKBHJesus hates your pretentiousness and so do I.
Entering into the debate with (so-called) jokes? Credit denied.
"Mundane theological" is an antithetical phrase.
"Amazingly irrelevant" doesn't quite fit the bill, considering eagle's question relative to whether or not his friend will end up in heaven.
When one considers what it is that Jesus Christ has done, the truth is the most beautiful thing to ever touch the earth. And I know it.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThen why would God eternally punish such a gentle soul? His works are consistently those of a truly compassionate person. It's not as if he does volunteer work. Giving himself to others' needs is his entire life.
When one considers what it is that Jesus Christ has done, the truth is the most beautiful thing to ever touch the earth. And I know it.
Some lifelong evil-doer gets a free pass to heaven with a deathbed conversion yet a person who acts upon a profound understanding of beings' suffering is sent to their unending agony for all ages?
Originally posted by eagles54Then why would God eternally punish such a gentle soul?
Your question can't be answered sufficiently with a few short phrases.
To be sure, the world is full of examples where non-believers exhibit much more integrity than do believers. In fact, there is a general lack of integrity among most professing believers, exacerbated by the underlying assumption that they should be leading the crowd, in this area, at least.
Integrity is its own reward, however, and has many wonderful benefits in this life, as well as in the next. Those believers without integrity in this life are miserable, and miss out on the rewards available to them in the next. Not that that is any comfort for someone going to hell, of course.
The spiritual issue in this life begins with acceptance or rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and is the great divide. Possessing or lacking God's righteousness, for any person, 'good or bad,' determines their final destination. Like all of us, your friend, he alone determines his destiny.
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHInteresting.
Integrity is its own reward, however, and has many wonderful benefits in this life, as well as in the next. Those believers without integrity in this life are miserable, and miss out on the rewards available to them in the next. Not that that is any comfort for someone going to hell, of course.
There are benefits to be enjoyed in hell by so-called non-believers because of their previous genuine life of integrity? Or, do you mean that the man I know is excluded from any reward whatsoever? Maybe a life of crime in which he destroyed the lives of many others yet came to "know" Christ would have been the better use of his time in that case.
And believers don't receive all the rewards of having taken Jesus Christ as their savior?
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Originally posted by FreakyKBHSupposedly, in your neck of the woods, pedophiles are as numerous as town drunks and just as harmless. Sure, that's funny.
Supposedly, in your neck of the woods, pedophiles are as numerous as town drunks and just as harmless. Sure, that's funny.
Additionally, staining a man's reputation is a form of affection. You're a warm, loving human being with an innate sense of humor.
Eh?
Additionally, staining a man's reputation is a form of affection.
Staining his reputation? We don't even know who he is. If you really need it explaining to you, it was a joke based on dissonance between the tone of the original post and mine.
You're a warm, loving human being with an innate sense of humor.
You are correct.
Darvlay, I don't give his credit for entering this discussion. There is nothing brave about being so dogmatic, so ready to simply dismiss this important paradox with the line "he's going to hell and only God can save him", and so utterly dismissive of other viewpoints.
Originally posted by eagles54There are benefits to be enjoyed in hell by so-called non-believers because of their previous genuine life of integrity?
No. Inegrity as its own reward is meant for this life. No comfort in hell.
And believers don't receive all the rewards of having taken Jesus Christ as their savior?
Acceptance of Jesus' work on the cross is just the beginning of the spiritual life. Only those who exploit the opportunitites here receive 'reward' there. Those who do not move forward in the spiritual life lose out on the rewards previously set aside for them. They are still in heaven, without tears or pain, but sans rewards.
Originally posted by darvlayFrom the Vatican II Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium):
Feel free to tell me your version, LH, and I will gladly retract my statement if it is warranted.
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (LG 16)
Peace,
LH
Originally posted by FreakyKBHI remain completely unconvinced, particularly that a just God would demand an eternity's worth of suffering for a man dedicated to serving His children. It makes no sense on any level.
[b]There are benefits to be enjoyed in hell by so-called non-believers because of their previous genuine life of integrity?
No. Inegrity as its own reward is meant for this life. No comfort in hell.
And believers don't receive all the rewards of having taken Jesus Christ as their savior?
Acceptance of Jesus' work on the cross is just the ...[text shortened]... usly set aside for them. They are still in heaven, without tears or pain, but sans rewards.[/b]
And where do you get your information on the differing levels of reward in heaven?
Originally posted by lucifershammerDoes this mean that the person must never have heard of Christ, or could it be, say, that a person rejects the Gospels due to misunderstanding or cultural conditioning but goes on to lead an exemplary life in every other respect and is consequently saved?
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church
Originally posted by lucifershammerDoes "...do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church..." mean those who are entirely ignorant of such, (extremely rare, I would guess) or those who do know of Christ, yet while neither accepting or rejecting him, work selflessly in other ways?
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (LG 16)
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageIt could be the latter; but it depends on a number of factors - the nature and scope of the misunderstanding or cultural conditioning, the reasons for rejection, the person's motivation to lead an exemplary life etc.
Does this mean that the person must never have heard of Christ, or could it be, say, that a person rejects the Gospels due to misunderstanding or cultural conditioning but goes on to lead an exemplary life in every other respect and is consequently saved?
EDIT: eagles - see this post.
A person cannot have internal virtue without the grace of God (he can be externally virtuous without it - he could be a person who does good acts for wrong reasons). One cannot receive the grace of God without being open to it. One cannot be open to it if one is in a state of mortal sin. Only a person in a state of mortal sin is condemned to Hell.