Originally posted by robbie carrobie"Self interpreting" and "self evident truths"? More of this peculiar subjective terminology you keep coming out with. Christians have been debating their interpretations of the bible for many centuries. These differences indicate quite clearly that your claim to be right, and your claim that those who disagree with you are wrong, is simply your opinion. Indeed, if your were attempting to be objective, you would apply your odd "self-certified opinion" label to your own opinion. Any Christian can claim that the "self interpreting" nature of the bible supports their interpretation and undermines yours.
The Bible is self interpreting as it presents certain self evident truths.
Originally posted by FMFit must be true FMF, because you say so.
"Self interpreting" and "self evident truths"? More of this peculiar subjective terminology you keep coming out with. Christians have been debating their interpretations of the bible for many centuries. These differences indicate quite clearly that your claim to be right, and your claim that those who disagree with you are wrong, is simply your opinion. Indeed, ...[text shortened]... lf interpreting" nature of the bible supports their interpretation and undermines yours.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou seem to be misunderstanding me. I am genuinely curious about what I see as a rhetorical device you are using and I am tackling you on it without rancour, even if you do decide to just trot out facetious retorts and pretend not to know what I'm getting at. I think that this "self-certified opinion" label you have been tossing out is a lazy little soundbite that doesn't really mean anything and, frankly, does not withstand scrutiny. I've pressed you on it, and all I seem to have got is that you think your opinions are right and that the people who have what you call "self-certified opinions" are wrong. I don't think you can explain it and this is one reason why I think it's just objectively meaningless, even if it has some self-edifying personal meaning for you. And we can now add the similarly lazy soundbites "self-interpreting book" and "self-evident truth" too.
it must be true FMF, because you say so.
Originally posted by FMFif you say so. . . . .
You seem to be misunderstanding me. I am genuinely curious about what I see as a rhetorical device you are using and I am tackling you on it without rancour, even if you do decide to just trot out facetious retorts and pretend not to know what I'm getting at. I think that this "self-certified opinion" label you have been tossing out is a lazy little soundbite th ...[text shortened]... he similarly lazy soundbites "self-interpreting book" and "self-evident truth" too.
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell, as it happens, I do. If trotting out a little meaningless and subjective label like "self-certified opinion", when an opinion diverges from yours, makes you feel better about yourself, then good for you. 😵
if you say so. . . . .
Originally posted by FMFoh lighten up you old cynic you! Going to the gym makes me feel better about myself,
Well, as it happens, I do. If trotting out a little meaningless and subjective label like "self-certified opinion", when an opinion diverges from yours, makes you feel better about yourself, then good for you. 😵
going to the sauna helps me feel better about myself, dissing arguments that are based
upon naught but mere opinion brings me no such sensation.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo you reckon my objection to a glib, catch-all expression like "self-certified opinion" is, itself, a "self-certified opinion" presumably. Wow, what a convenient little device that is for you. Just slap it on to anything you disagree with and tell yourself your opinions are in some way "certified" and "self evidently true". Maybe it works for you when you're among people who all very pointedly have the same opinion, but elsewhere it'll just make you sound rather precious and self-regarding. Indeed, I don't think you have successfully "dissed" my intellectual objection to your little rhetorical advice, not at all, and this is probably why you are now just copping out and resorting to facetious retorts. 😀
...dissing arguments that are based upon naught but mere opinion brings me no such sensation.
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFI just had a chocolate éclair, piped with fresh cream, that made me feel good, although
So you reckon my objection to a glib, catch-all expression like "self-certified opinion" is, itself, a "self-certified opinion" presumably. Wow, what a convenient little device that is for you. Just slap it on to anything you disagree with and tell yourself your opinions are in some way "certified" and "self evidently true". Maybe it works for you when you're am is probably why you are now just copping out and resorting to facetious retorts. 😀
it was rather fleeting. True story.
1 edit
-Removed-let us take the quotation for a moment in its immediate context,
(Matthew 7:16) . . .By their fruits you will recognize them. . .
Now we can immediately discern that Christ was not talking of his true disciples at
all, but rather false Christians, as he tells us as much in the preceding sentence
making reference to false prophets. Now let us consider your assertion in view if
this incontrovertible and self evident truth and I quote,
"Love" is part of the "fruit" i mentioned.
Clearly the fruitage that Christ is speaking of in the above verse is not love at all, in
fact, it has nothing to do with his disciples or how one can recognise true Christians.
Evidently not only have you misunderstood Christ's words, but you have misunderstood them
to the extent that you are now attempting to state that the same criteria for
recognising false Christians and enemies of the Christ was in fact applicable to
recognising Christ's true disciples, that is how utterly far removed your
understanding of scripture actually is, you have confused two diametric opposites.
Why you have done this is of some interest, firstly you make the assertion, or rather
assumption, which has no basis in reality, and I quote
Jesus gave one "criteria" only: "you shall know them by their fruit"
now shown not only to be false but to rest on the premise that you simply made up
and attempted to substantiate with another misunderstanding and make-it-up-as-
you-go-along interpretation of a verse that was intended to help the disciples
recognise not true Christians, but enemies of the Christ.
Why has this happened? simply because that instead of letting the Bible speak for
itself and attempting to ascertain what values true Christians would hold and how
one may recognise them, you utter forth some self certified opinion and attempt to
substantiate it. In this instance the Bible itself have demonstrated the utterly
ludicrous that assertion is.
Here are some self evident Biblical facts concerning true Christians. Christ stated
that you will recognise his true disciples by the love they have among themselves,
he stated that his true disciples would preach the Good News of of Kingdom until the
conclusion of the system, he stated that his true disciples would be no part of the
world, he stated that his true disciples would make Gods name manifest, he stated
that his true disciples would have a high regard for and be cleansed by application of
Gods word. All self evident , incontrovertible Bible facts of which you seem
somehow blissfully unaware.
5 edits
-Removed-when Jesus said 'you will know them by their fruits', he was talking of the enemies
of Christ, not the disciples as you have erroneously assumed. Please tell the forum
why you have attempted to state that Jesus was making reference to the disciples
when he stated, 'you will know them by their fruits', when it is self evident that he was
referring to false prophets? This a is a reflection of just how thoroughly devoid of
both knowledge and understanding your self certified and ludicrous opinions are,
please project your ignorance elsewhere or admit that you have actually no idea
what you are talking about and simply spurt something out and then try to
substantiate it with even more ludicrous assertions.
here is a piece of advice, unsolicited i know, why don't you go away and research
your subject and then come back to the forum, it may save you looking so utterly
ridiculous in future.
1. Christ stated that you will recognise his true disciples by the love they have
among themselves, Biblical fact and self evident truth.
2. Christ stated that his true disciples would preach the Good News of of Kingdom
until the conclusion of the system, Biblical fact and self evident truth.
3. Christ stated that his true disciples would be no part of the world, Biblical fact
and self evident truth.
4. Christ stated that his true disciples would make Gods name manifest, Biblical fact
and self evident truth.
5. Christ stated that his true disciples would have a high regard for and be cleansed
by application of Gods word, Biblical fact and self evident truth.