Spirituality
11 Feb 12
19 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71It was not just the church that once believed the earth was flat. It was the
The movement of objects has no effect on the speed of light. Mass would I believe. Like a black hole would have a tremendous effect on light as we know. One thing astronomers have seen is that everything is in Red-Shift or moving away (This would lend credence to the idea of the heavens being stretched out) There is no argument with the idea of stretching o NG The church once believed that the sun went around the earth WRONG. Truth is truth
Manny
people in general, including people of other religions, as well as those that
had no religion. It was a common belief, just like evolution has become a
common belief today. It turns out the Holy Bible was right on the earth
not being flat, even though the religious leaders and general public were not.
I think the Holy Bible will turn out to be right on evolution, too.
P.S. The people back in those days probably never heard of the theory of
relativity.
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadOh and by the way light was created before the stars.
Correct. However light carries information with it, far more information than a cars velocity does. I agree that we cannot always be sure where light came from or how far it has travelled, but we can be fairly sure. When you look up in the sky and see a galaxy, then we can be fairly sure that the light came from a galaxy. It is of course possible that the ...[text shortened]... , your earlier proposal that the light could have been created 'in transit' is a definite 2.
Kelly
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by RJHindsActually ancients some at least knew the earth was round it was just the dark ages and the Church trying to control people is were man lost his way on this knowledge.
It was not just the church that once believed the earth was flat. It was the
people in general, including people of other religions, as well as those that
had no religion. It was a common belief, just like evolution has become a
common belief today. It turns out the Holy Bible was right on the earth
not being flat, even though the religious leaders an ...[text shortened]... , too.
P.S. The people back in those days probably never heard of the theory of
relativity.
Manny
19 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayNo, I am not making any such assumptions. Why do you think I am? In what way did I use any claims about origin whatsoever in my argument? If you say I am making assumptions then show where I am making assumptions. Don't just keep repeating your claim like a broken record.
You again are assuming quite a bit with respect on how everything got here
and where everything has been here thorughout time.
You are using your beliefs about your beliefs to justify them,
Which of my claims is a belief? That light carries information? That I see galaxies when I look at the sky? Be specific. Stop trying to hide behind vague accusations.
You just assume all things are as they are now and because of that you know what happened
in time so far back it isn't even funny.
No, I do not assume that. You just think I do.
God is not deceiving you, you have taken it upon yourself to do what your doing
with dates,
I said nothing about dates (in the post you are responding to, or even the particular topic it was about). I talked about light.
So if that is the case, God cannot fake you out, you cannot be wrong.
Yes, I am not a last thursdayist. I do not believe in the existence of a God that created a fake history of the universe.
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by KellyJayStop with the lies. Where did I make any such claim? Quote me or apologize.
I told you God created the universe, you have taken it upon yourself to suggest
you know how it HAD to have happen so you can claim what the universe
looked like billions of years ago.
You know God couldn't possible have made
the universe as if He were making a watch with all parts functioning at its
creation, what you seem to claim is that God instead HAD to make the watch
one piece at a time then having to put it all together to it worked.
Kelly
No, I am saying that if God created my house last Thursday complete with a photo on the wall of me as a child, then God created a fake history and clearly wants me to think I had a childhood. Your claim that I am jumping to conclusions when I see that photo and that it does not mean I had a childhood, I find somewhat ridiculous.
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by KellyJayHow do you even know there are stars? The light we see was created as light (or so you claim) so what we see does not exist. If there are stars they are not where we see them - and never were where we see them - and some that we thought we saw go supernova, never did exist. So what makes you think stars exist? Maybe we are just making assumptions. Maybe there are no stars.
Oh and by the way light was created before the stars.
Kelly
19 Feb 12
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Originally posted by KellyJayThis twhithead character falls within Dasa's dishonesty category of coming
Oh and by the way light was created before the stars.
Kelly
to the Spirituality forum with no intention to learn, etc., etc. I think it best
to not reply to him anymore for that reason. He has been given enough
information to learn, but that is obviously not his intention. I for one will
not respond to him.
P.S. I know this will probably result in some bad mouthing. I get that
all the time anyway. I wish that would not have to happen to you, but it
will, as long as you defend your Christian beliefs.
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'd say the biggest assumption you are making is that you cannot be wrong
No, I am not making any such assumptions. Why do you think I am? In what way did I use any claims about origin whatsoever in my argument? If you say I am making assumptions then show where I am making assumptions. Don't just keep repeating your claim like a broken record.
[b]You are using your beliefs about your beliefs to justify them,
Which of m ...[text shortened]... ayist. I do not believe in the existence of a God that created a fake history of the universe.[/b]
about dating. With that you are completely relying on all the things you
have assumed are true about the now as it translates back in time.
Kelly
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou cannot be right about dating the universe without such knowledge.
Stop with the lies. Where did I make any such claim? Quote me or apologize.
[b]You know God couldn't possible have made
the universe as if He were making a watch with all parts functioning at its
creation, what you seem to claim is that God instead HAD to make the watch
one piece at a time then having to put it all together to it worked.
Kelly ...[text shortened]... when I see that photo and that it does not mean I had a childhood, I find somewhat ridiculous.[/b]
Now if you want to to tell me that with star light you cannot tell me about
dates that you could be wrong....I'll stand corrected.
Kelly
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadYes, I am not a last thursdayist. I do not believe in the existence of a God that created a fake history of the universe.
No, I am not making any such assumptions. Why do you think I am? In what way did I use any claims about origin whatsoever in my argument? If you say I am making assumptions then show where I am making assumptions. Don't just keep repeating your claim like a broken record.
[b]You are using your beliefs about your beliefs to justify them,
Which of m ...[text shortened]... ayist. I do not believe in the existence of a God that created a fake history of the universe.[/b]
Oh but you are running the risk of that of doing that yourself, you believe its
billions of years old do you not? If it is only a few thousand years old you've
created a fake history.
You want to start saying you "believe it to be older" and lay off this "I know
and cannot be wrong" I'd say you are walking in truth, beyond that you are
creating a history that may or may not be true, so don't go all righteous in
how pure your thoughts about that past are.
Kelly
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by menace71Personally I think global warming is scientific farce of today, you could make
Actually ancients some at least knew the earth was round it was just the dark ages and the Church trying to control people is were man lost his way on this knowledge.
Manny
the claim that if it isn't true, then we have a modern day flat earth society
doing well among us today.
Kelly
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by moon1969It was in the interest of the church to retain its power so it kept the people in ignorance as absolutely long as possible. By the time of Galileo too many people were hip to the idea that the Earth was not the center of the universe and that is when the church started losing its grip on ignorance. They had a nice run though, 1500 odd years by that time. Which really really sucked but what can you do?
Indeed, religion has persecuted followers and promoters of science throughout history.
19 Feb 12
Originally posted by sonhouseIt is really the Pope and his cohorts that you are referring to. They were
It was in the interest of the church to retain its power so it kept the people in ignorance as absolutely long as possible. By the time of Galileo too many people were hip to the idea that the Earth was not the center of the universe and that is when the church started losing its grip on ignorance. They had a nice run though, 1500 odd years by that time. Which really really sucked but what can you do?
like the Pharisees that Christ condemned.