Originally posted by RJHinds
The church father that wrote the creeds agree with me and I suppose members of many churches do too.

Can you show where any "church fathers" state that believing in the trinity is critical to salvation?

When you say "suppose" I will take that to mean that you have never actually met someone who believes what you do in this matter.

Originally posted by divegeester
Can you show where any "church fathers" state that believing in the trinity is critical to salvation?

When you say "suppose" I will take that to mean that you have never actually met someone who believes what you do in this matter.

I suppose they believe cause they teach it. Look at the last part of the Athanasian Creed.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Look at the last part of the Athanasian Creed.

The onus is on you to post evidence of what you believe.

Originally posted by divegeester
The onus is on you to post evidence of what you believe.

The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic* Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

* catholic means "universal" and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church.

The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

There you go!

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sit ...[text shortened]... e cannot be saved.

There you go!

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy![/b]

This post says you need to be a Catholic or you are going to hell; are you a Catholic RJHinds?

btw - I know what the Catholics believe and I reject all of it wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sit ...[text shortened]... e cannot be saved.

There you go!

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy![/b]

Hummmm. I don't see one scripture there buddy. Why not? It seems to us unsaven souls that this is a bunch of old man made stuff that was not only ever true to begin with, is full of the dark ages and as never got the falseness out and the truths in.
Shame, shame, shame....

I'm really beginnning to think you love this deep and mysterious stuff. But is this mysterious stuff a good thing?


1 John 1:5-7
Good News Translation (GNT)

God Is Light
5 Now the message that we have heard from his Son and announce is this: God is light, and there is no darkness at all in him. 6 If, then, we say that we have fellowship with him, yet at the same time live in the darkness, we are lying both in our words and in our actions. 7 But if we live in the light—just as he is in the light—then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from every sin.


"When the good news about the Christ was brought to the non-Jews, those who responded favorably were ‘called out of darkness into God’s wonderful light.’ (1Pe 2:9) But others continued to allow the one who transforms himself into “an angel of light” or enlightenment (2Co 11:14), “the god of this system of things,” to blind them so ‘that the illumination of the good news about the Christ might not shine through.’ (2Co 4:4) They preferred darkness, for they wanted to continue in their selfish course.—Compare Joh 3:19, 20."

Originally posted by divegeester
This post says you need to be a Catholic or you are going to hell; are you a Catholic RJHinds?

btw - I know what the Catholics believe and I reject all of it wholeheartedly.

The Catholic mentioned there refers to the "universal Christian" belief and not to the add-ons by the Roman Catholic Church. Many think catholic only refers to the Roman Catholic Church. That is not true.

I have to go to the pharmacy and do some shopping now. Be back with you later.

Originally posted by divegeester
This post says you need to be a Catholic or you are going to hell; are you a Catholic RJHinds?

btw - I know what the Catholics believe and I reject all of it wholeheartedly.

Lol.....

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Catholic mentioned there refers to the "universal Christian" belief and not to the add-ons by the Roman Catholic Church. Many think catholic only refers to the Roman Catholic Church. That is not true.

I have to go to the pharmacy and do some shopping now. Be back with you later.

No it doesn't in the least. Keep it coming as this is an awesome plot developing. Lol.

Originally posted by galveston75
No it doesn't in the least. Keep it coming as this is an awesome plot developing. Lol.

See........ This is were your ignorance figures in to your lack of understanding. You do not understand what Christ meant when He changed Simon's name to Peter and said He would build His church on this Peter as the corner stone and gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom and whatever he was to bind or loose on Earth are to be bound or loose in Heaven.

What was the Christain Church built on Peter? Where is the tomb of Peter and what Church is build there? Do you know?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter's_tomb

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Catholic mentioned there refers to the "universal Christian" belief and not to the add-ons by the Roman Catholic Church. Many think catholic only refers to the Roman Catholic Church. That is not true.

I have to go to the pharmacy and do some shopping now. Be back with you later.

No it doesn't say that at all; it says quite clearly that you have to be "Catholic" in order to go avoid hell. Are you a Catholic... Yes or No?

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Catholic mentioned there refers to the "universal Christian" belief and not to the add-ons by the Roman Catholic Church. Many think catholic only refers to the Roman Catholic Church. That is not true.

I have to go to the pharmacy and do some shopping now. Be back with you later.

And what is a "universal Christian" anyway?

Are they bound by the Catholic creed in it's entirity or can the "universal Chrisitan" pick whatever they want?

Are you a "universal Christian" RJHinds?

Originally posted by divegeester
No it doesn't say that at all; it says quite clearly that you have to be "Catholic" in order to go avoid hell. Are you a Catholic... Yes or No?

Yes, I was baptized as a Christian at Calvary Baptist Church, which you should know is a denomination that accepts the catholic beliefs set forth in the creeds of Christianity.

http://wittenbergtrail.org/group/studygroupthelutheranconfessions/forum/topics/the-three-universal-creeds?xg_source=activity

Originally posted by divegeester
And what is a "universal Christian" anyway?

Are they bound by the Catholic creed in it's entirity or can the "universal Chrisitan" pick whatever they want?

Are you a "universal Christian" RJHinds?

A universal Christian is a Christian who believes the three univeral creeds of the Christian Church. They are bound by these three unversal creeds that came out of Christ's church that was built on Peter, who was given the keys to the Kingdom to bind and loosen. Yes, I am a universal Christian.

http://wittenbergtrail.org/group/studygroupthelutheranconfessions/forum/topics/the-three-universal-creeds?xg_source=activity

P.S. Now that I am married and live in Georgia instead of Texas, were I was baptized, I go to the church where my wife goes and she is United Methodist and also believes in the three universal creeds of Christianity.

Originally posted by RJHinds
A universal Christian is a Christian who believes the three univeral creeds of the Christian Church. They are bound by these three unversal creeds that came out of Christ's church that was built on Peter, who was given the keys to the Kingdom to bind and loosen. Yes, I am a universal Christian.

http://wittenbergtrail.org/group/studygroupthelutheranconfe ...[text shortened]... es and she is United Methodist and also believes in the three universal creeds of Christianity.

But still you are not Catholic and do not go to the Catholic church and follow their every belief. So YOU posted their words that you have to be a Catholic to be saved.
So are they right or wrong? If they are right then you a dead man walking as you are not Catholic.
If they are wrong then they could very well be wrong on other scriptural matters which in turn means you could just as easily be wrong in your opinions on how this trinity stuff works especially when it comes to being saved only if you believe in it.

I love this. Just keeps getting better and better.... Lol.

PS. I still want to see the scripture that says you have to believe in the trinity to be saved??????
If that really doesn't exist, then that means some imperfect and sinful human made this rule up. Maybe the reason was to burden ones with fear that "you better believe what we say or you'll burn in hell".
Just the kind of burdens Jesus condemned of the religious leaders of his time....