Trinitarians: Does not believing the 'trinity' lead to damnation?

Originally posted by RJHinds
What then would you say is the absolute minimum that one must believe to be able to be saved?

Christ said to believe on him enough said LOL



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Christ said to believe on him enough said LOL



Manny

So that's all? That's it? Nothing else to do? Are you sure?

Originally posted by galveston75
I still noticed the word "formulated" used there by basically the designers of the trinity.

What exactly does that mean "fomulated?"

If the trinity is a truth, why does anyone have to formulate it?


formulatedpast participle, past tense of for·mu·late (Verb)Verb1.Create or devise methodically (a strategy or a proposal).Eg: "economists and st ...[text shortened]... o devise or invent: formulate strategy.
2. To prepare according to a specified formula.

No takers yet?

Originally posted by menace71
Christ said to believe on him enough said LOL



Manny

James said, " You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder."
(James 2:19 NASB)

The Demons also believe Jesus is the Son of God, are they Christians?

When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way. And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?” Now there was a herd of many swine feeding at a distance from them. The demons began to entreat Him, saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.”
(Matthew 8:28-31 NASB)

Originally posted by galveston75
No takers yet?

I see the following in that wikipedia article on the Trinity:

Later, the diverse references to God, Jesus, and the Spirit found in the New Testament were systematized into a Trinity—one God subsisting in three persons and one substance—to combat heretical tendencies of how the three are related and to defend the church against charges of worshiping two or three gods.

Where exactly do you see "formulated" used in that article. Maybe then I could help explain what they mean. I do not want to have to read through the whole article in order to find it.

RJHinds, it seems that no one agrees with your view that a person is not a Christian unless they believe in the doctrine of the trinity. Manny has made his position clear also.

Are you going to stand by what you said?

Originally posted by RJHinds
The doctrine of the Trinity was written by the Christian Church to counter heresies like what you are putting out today. The idea is somewhat hidden in the Old Testament, but is revealed in the New testament.

being itself a babylonian heresy, the trinity doctrine cannot counter heresies. it cannot be found anywhere in the bible. it is not in any way related to jesus's teachings.

Originally posted by RJHinds
James said, " You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder."
(James 2:19 NASB)

[b]The Demons also believe Jesus is the Son of God, are they Christians?

When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extre ...[text shortened]... g, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.”
(Matthew 8:28-31 NASB)[/b]

I don't think having an exact 100% theological formula is the point!!! Do you really believe that? It's our heart condition and how we respond to God and treat our fellow man. Paul says you can have all of these gifts yet if you do not have love your nothing more than a noisy gong !!


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
I don't think having an exact 100% theological formula is the point!!! Do you really believe that? It's our heart condition and how we respond to God and treat our fellow man. Paul says you can have all of these gifts yet if you do not have love your nothing more than a noisy gong !!


Manny

No, we still do not have a 100% theological formula, even with all the Christian creeds.

Paul the apostle to the gentiles writes in Romans 10:

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

IT DEPENDS ON WHAT IT MEANS TO CONFESS THE LORD JESUS AND BELIEVE ON HIM.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”

But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”

But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

Romans 10 NKJV

SO DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD IN THE FLESH OR NOT?

P.S. The Pharisees did not believe Jesus was God in the flesh. To them that was blasphemy. If you truely believe on Jesus, don't you have to believe what He said about everything, including God - The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit???

Originally posted by RJHinds
I see the following in that wikipedia article on the Trinity:

[b]Later, the diverse references to God, Jesus, and the Spirit found in the New Testament were systematized into a Trinity—one God subsisting in three persons and one substance—to combat heretical tendencies of how the three are related and to defend the church against charges of worshiping two ...[text shortened]... what they mean. I do not want to have to read through the whole article in order to find it.

Under this heading (References used from Scripture ) in the artical. Perhaps if you would really read this info you just might actually learn something about your belief?
You really should give it all the efffort you can because what one not only believes but even teaches to others if very important to God and absolutly affects ones approval of him.

So it seems that if a person or persons has to "formulate" a belief that is clearly not in the Bible, then they are going beyond what the Bible teaches which is a serious sin and is condemned in the Bible.
Perhaps they felt they had to come up with the best recipe they could to get this to finally pass for the vote of those fellows in Nicaea.
But unfortunently they still didn't completely get all the missing gaps fixed because even to this day NO ONE can still explain it or have it make sence.
But then again this is exactly what bible itself says would happen....

Originally posted by galveston75
Under this heading (References used from Scripture ) in the artical. Perhaps if you would really read this info you just might actually learn something about your belief?
You really should give it all the efffort you can because what one not only believes but even teaches to others if very important to God and absolutly affects ones approval of him.

have it make sence.
But then again this is exactly what bible itself says would happen....

The way I understand it is that some people call the saying "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" in a baptismal ceremony as was instructed by Jesus as a formula for baptisms. They don't mean a belief system was formulated. I guess that was a poor choice of words because this is not a formula, but a command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Originally posted by RJHinds
The way I understand it is that some people call the saying "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" in a baptismal ceremony as was instructed by Jesus as a formula for baptisms. They don't mean a belief system was formulated. I guess that was a poor choice of words because this is not a formula, but a command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19. ...[text shortened]... nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[/b]

Oh they way you understand it? Don't "lean on your own understanding" my friend. It will never work with God and understanding him.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

This says nothing about the trinity. Jehovah is the name of the Father. Jesus is the name of the son. The Holy Spirit has never had a name and never will as it is god's power he uses to accomplish all that he wills and plans.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The way I understand it is that some people call the saying "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" in a baptismal ceremony as was instructed by Jesus as a formula for baptisms. They don't mean a belief system was formulated. I guess that was a poor choice of words because this is not a formula, but a command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19. ...[text shortened]... nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[/b]

It seems that no one agrees with your view that a person is not a Christian unless they believe in the doctrine of the trinity. Manny has made his position clear also.

Are you going to stand by what you said?

Originally posted by divegeester
It seems that no one agrees with your view that a person is not a Christian unless they believe in the doctrine of the trinity. Manny has made his position clear also.

Are you going to stand by what you said?

It doesn't seem to be that any trinitairians agree with him 100% on this.
That is the glaring problem with the trinity. None of them can agree on exactly how it works...

Originally posted by galveston75
That is the glaring problem with the trinity. None of them can agree on exactly how it works...

Despite you and robbie backing each other to the often painful hilt, the truth is not identified through unanimous vote.