Truth- Absolute or Relative?

@kellyjay said
Truth is something we have to agree with, it isn't a frame of mind, what is true for you is going to be true for everyone else, truth isn't an opinion, opinions are opinions.

Your opinions about "truth" are just that ~ your opinions.

@kellyjay said
It would be possible to see truth and screw it up by applying our opinions to it that claim it to be something other than what it really is.

When, in your personal opinion, you "see truth", you are entitled to share it and see who agrees and disagrees with you.

@kellyjay said
Does what I want to be true, true only because I want it to be, or just because it is?

What you desire to be true has no bearing on the truth .

@caissad4 said
What you desire to be true has no bearing on the truth .

We are in absolute agreement on this one point of truth.

@kellyjay said
We are in absolute agreement on this one point of truth.

So you accept that if the 'actual truth' is that God doesn't exist, nothing you say or believe will change that?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
So you accept that if the 'actual truth' is that God doesn't exist, nothing you say or believe will change that?

No I accept whatever the truth of God is will not depend on you or my beliefs. Since truth is truth for everyone the variety of beliefs will not alter it.

@kellyjay said
No I accept whatever the truth of God is will not depend on you or my beliefs. Since truth is truth for everyone the variety of beliefs will not alter it.

So you accept that what you are saying is subjective and not objective?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
So you accept that if the 'actual truth' is that God doesn't exist, nothing you say or believe will change that?

Does my beliefs about gravity keep my feet on the planet? If I doubt, do I float off? What is true does not depend on us, we can accept or reject it, even ignorance of it does not alter it.

So questions about my beliefs is meaningless to the truth, we all have beliefs the question is not that we have them but are they based on truths not errors.

God, Jesus Christ, sins, salvation and other such topics either hold us by the truth of them or not. What is true for one remains truth for all.

@kellyjay said
Does my beliefs about gravity keep my feet on the planet? If I doubt, do I float off? What is true does not depend on us, we can accept or reject it, even ignorance of it does not alter it.

So questions about my beliefs is meaningless to the truth, we all have beliefs the question is not that we have them but are they based on truths not errors.

God, Jesus Christ, sins ...[text shortened]... such topics either hold us by the truth of them or not. What is true for one remains truth for all.

Again with the "gravity" thing! Have you been preaching to the choir so long you don't realize how weak the "gravity" riff is?

@kellyjay said
No I accept whatever the truth of God is will not depend on you or my beliefs. Since truth is truth for everyone the variety of beliefs will not alter it.

caissad4 said, 'What you desire to be true has no bearing on the truth.'

You answered, 'We are in absolute agreement on this one point of truth.'

But that is not the case Kelly. God existing is 'your desire' 'your belief.' Neither of these things makes God's existence real or 'truth.'

So once again, if 'the truth of God' is that God 'doesn't' actually exist, nothing you say or believe can change that. In other words, I challenge your default starting point that God's existence is truth and that nothing you are I say or believe has any bearing.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
caissad4 said, 'What you desire to be true has no bearing on the truth.'

You answered, 'We are in absolute agreement on this one point of truth.'

But that is not the case Kelly. God existing is 'your desire' 'your belief.' Neither of these things makes God's existence real or 'truth.'

So once again, if 'the truth of God' is that God 'doesn't' actually exist ...[text shortened]... rting point that God's existence is truth and that nothing you are I say or believe has any bearing.

The reality of God being real or not will change because of what I believe, or if I want it to be true or not. Truth is not dependent upon me or anyone else. It would not be a valid truth if it did, because reality is going to be true for everyone, not just those that are happy about it.

@kellyjay said
The reality of God being real or not will change because of what I believe, or if I want it to be true or not. Truth is not dependent upon me or anyone else. It would not be a valid truth if it did, because reality is going to be true for everyone, not just those that are happy about it.

Honestly kelly, please try to follow this.

If an apple sat on a table, we would both accept its existence as 'true.' Nothing either of us said or believed would change the reality of the apple's existence. (Which had been clearly evidenced to our mutual satisfaction). Agree so far?

Unlike the apple, 'God' is not sitting on the table. You accept his existence through faith. I don't. You might be right in your belief that God exists, but you might also be wrong. (Sorry, but you might). The reality might be that God 'Does not exist.' I repeat, the reality might be that 'God does not exist.' His non-existence is not dependent upon me or anyone else. He simply isn't there.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Honestly kelly, please try to follow this.

If an apple sat on a table, we would both accept its existence as 'true.' Nothing either of us said or believed would change the reality of the apple's existence. (Which had been clearly evidenced to our mutual satisfaction). Agree so far?

Unlike the apple, 'God' is not sitting on the table. You accept his existence thr ...[text shortened]... d does not exist.' His non-existence is not dependent upon me or anyone else. He simply isn't there.

Like the apple it is what it is, if you and I knew nothing of it being there too, correct?
You think the reality of the apple is different than the reality of God?

Please try to follow this.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Honestly kelly, please try to follow this.

If an apple sat on a table, we would both accept its existence as 'true.' Nothing either of us said or believed would change the reality of the apple's existence. (Which had been clearly evidenced to our mutual satisfaction). Agree so far?

Unlike the apple, 'God' is not sitting on the table. You accept his existence thr ...[text shortened]... d does not exist.' His non-existence is not dependent upon me or anyone else. He simply isn't there.

He simply isn't there is a truth statement, a matter of faith on your part. You can say He isn't there that does not make it so, and your denying it as my accepting it doesn't alter what is real and true about God. It is not human musing that sets up reality, we can create our world views, but that doesn't mean, that what we came up with to look at the world around us, is actually inline with reality.

“A worldview is a commitment, a fundamental orientation of the heart, that can be expressed as a story or in a set of presuppositions (assumptions which may be true, partially true or entirely false) which we hold (consciously or subconsciously, consistently or inconsistently) about the basic constitution of reality, and that provides the foundations on which we live and more and have our being.” – James W Sire


reality
[rēˈalədē]

NOUN
the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.