05 Sep 19
@philokalia saidYou are one of them.
OK, well, I am sure there are people who are obtuse like that, FMF.
06 Sep 19
@philokalia saidIt isn't that hard to understand, its only hard to defend the idea there are no absolute truths, when things like truth cannot be denied without contradiction.
Why do you think this content is hard to understand and that I MUST have read everything that KJ ad others have said to participate?
@kellyjay saidAnd yet you have sidestepped and ignored every single one of my observations, comments and questions on this thread. It is your utterly subjective assertions about your own opinions amounting to "objective" and "absolute" truths that you are seemingly unable to "defend".
It isn't that hard to understand, its only hard to defend the idea there are no absolute truths, when things like truth cannot be denied without contradiction.
@philokalia saidBecause you have chosen to be obtuse and rather pompous rather than engage the topic and the conversation. Your attempts at some tangent you think is "complex" and "deep" just come across as off-target winging-it waffle. You called out KellyJay's take on this subject as "obtuse" but you are being "obtuse" as well. Go and start your thread about how you think Buddhists do whatever it is you seem to think they do.
Why do you think this content is hard to understand and that I MUST have read everything that KJ ad others have said to participate?
@kellyjay saidI have no doubt that you very sincerely want your personal opinions about "unknowable" things ~ connected to spiritual matters and supernatural causality ~ to be absolutely true and absolutely true for everyone around you.
Does what I want to be true, true only because I want it to be, or just because it is?
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@fmf saidI presumably have the personal subjective opinion that God exists. This opinion of mine is either true or false. That is the undeniable nature of truth.
Where you think the goalposts should be and whatever framework you have chosen or have been raised to believe in, these are matters for your subjective opinion and speculation.
You can talk about how your conjecture and belief in supernatural things are "objective" till the cows come home, it doesn't make a difference. They are just your personal opinions.
You can talk about how my conjecture and belief in supernatural things are "relative " till the cows come home, it doesn't make a difference to the fact that they are either true or false. One day we will all know the truth.
07 Sep 19
@dj2becker saidThis may we’ll be an absolute truth but currently it is not an objective truth, it is subjective opinion.
One day we will all know the truth.
If there is no God as you believe a God to be, or there is a different god but no afterlife, then we will all never know.
07 Sep 19
@dj2becker saidYour conjecture and belief regarding supernatural things are subjective, not objective. I repeat: your viewpoints about these things are subjective and not objective. Your personal opinion that "one day we will all know the truth" is entirely subjective.
You can talk about how my conjecture and belief in supernatural things are "relative " till the cows come home, it doesn't make a difference to the fact that they are either true or false. One day we will all know the truth.
07 Sep 19
@dj2becker saidYour opinion that the assertion "God exists" is "true" is your personal subjective opinion.
I presumably have the personal subjective opinion that God exists. This opinion of mine is either true or false. That is the undeniable nature of truth.
07 Sep 19
2 edits
@dj2becker saidWhen people speak up but they are only telling you what they think, or what you think they are not making truth claims, they are only talking about their ideas and what they think your ideas are. Truth is something we have to agree with, it isn't a frame of mind, what is true for you is going to be true for everyone else, truth isn't an opinion, opinions are opinions. When science looks at reality they want their understanding to as close to the truth as it can be, and when they see they missed something they have to alter their views, if they have stumbled upon truth it can only be confirmed. It would be possible to see truth and screw it up by applying our opinions to it that claim it to be something other than what it really is.
I presumably have the personal subjective opinion that God exists. This opinion of mine is either true or false. That is the undeniable nature of truth.
You can talk about how my conjecture and belief in supernatural things are "relative " till the cows come home, it doesn't make a difference to the fact that they are either true or false. One day we will all know the truth.
Truth is true no matter what we think about it.
07 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidYou are only telling people here what you think and what you think of what other people think. That's what a forum like this is for. You are sharing your perspective on spiritual "truths". That's all. No amount of puffing up your own personal opinions about supernatural things - "absolute" this, "objective" that - can change that.
When people speak up but they are only telling you what they think, or what you think they are not making truth claims, they are only talking about their ideas and what they think your ideas are.