Truth- Absolute or Relative?

@fmf said
We all make assumptions that we cannot prove.

And such assumptions are therefore subjective.

That doesn’t mean that none of our assumptions can ever be true.

Feel free to declare your assumptions and opinions about supernatural things to be "objective truths". It will indicate to people how very, very certain you are that you're right.

All I’m saying is that if they are true, they are true regardless of what you or I may believe about it. Something is not merely true because you believe it to be true. If it is true then it is as it is regardless of our beliefs on the matter.

@dj2becker said
All I’m saying is that if they are true, they are true regardless of what you or I may believe about it. Something is not merely true because you believe it to be true. If it is true then it is as it is regardless of our beliefs on the matter.

Your personal opinions about the "truth" of what your religious faith makes you believe cannot be turned into "objective truths" for both of us, no matter how many times your posting takes us on a spin around the rhetorical feedback loop that your 'thinking' on this subject amounts to.

Suggesting that the "truth" of what you claim will be somehow confirmed when we die does not turn your opinion into an "objective truth".

@fmf said
We all make assumptions that we cannot prove.

And such assumptions are therefore subjective.

That doesn’t mean that none of our assumptions can ever be true.

Feel free to declare your assumptions and opinions about supernatural things to be "objective truths". It will indicate to people how very, very certain you are that you're right.

And such assumptions are therefore subjective.

Unless they happen to be true of course.

@dj2becker said
And such assumptions are therefore subjective.

Unless they happen to be true of course.

Your personal opinions and assumptions about spiritual "truths" are subjective. No number of posts speculating about "if they are true" or "they may be true" or "if they happen to be true" or "were they to be true" can transform your personal opinions and assumptions about spiritual "truths" into "objective facts".

@fmf said
Your personal opinions about the "truth" of what your religious faith makes you believe cannot be turned into "objective truths" for both of us, no matter how many times your posting takes us on a spin around the rhetorical feedback loop that your 'thinking' on this subject amounts to.

Suggesting that the "truth" of what you claim will be somehow confirmed when we die does not turn your opinion into an "objective truth".

If someone 1000 years ago believed the earth was a sphere as apposed to flat and it was later confirmed to be true, you would still consider it a subjective opinion?

@dj2becker said
If someone 1000 years ago believed the earth was a sphere as apposed to flat and it was later confirmed to be true, you would still consider it a subjective opinion?

We are talking about beliefs related to supernatural causality and divine law. If the shape of the Earth was unknowable and unprovable 1,000 years ago, then of course people's opinions or speculations about it were subjective.

@fmf said
We are talking about beliefs related to supernatural causality and divine law. If the shape of the Earth was unknowable and unprovable 1,000 years ago, then of course people's opinions or speculations about it were subjective.

If those subjective opinions turned out to be true what makes you so sure that it’s impossible for opinions about supernatural causality and divine law to be true?

@dj2becker said
If those subjective opinions turned out to be true what makes you so sure that it’s impossible for opinions about supernatural causality and divine law to be true?

I have never claimed that it's impossible for your personal opinions about supernatural phenomena and divine law to be true. I have only said that your claims that they are true are subjective. You don't seem to have been reading my posts.

@fmf said
I have never claimed that it's impossible for your personal opinions about supernatural phenomena and divine law to be true. I have only said that your claims that they are true are subjective. You don't seem to have been reading my posts.

So now you suddenly agree that it is possible for a subjective opinion to be true? Fascinating.

@dj2becker said
So you agree that it is possible for a subjective opinion to be true?

Of course. I think mine are; I don't think yours are; you think yours are; and you don't think mine are.

But what does this have to do with you and KellyJay and SecondSon insisting that your beliefs, rooted in your faith and your conjecture about unknowable, unprovable supernatural matters, are "objective truths".

It's nonsense to declare one's subjective opinions to be "objective" simply because they MIGHT POSSIBLY be true.

@dj2becker said
So now you suddenly agree that it is possible for a subjective opinion to be true? Fascinating.

"Suddenly"?

@fmf said
Of course. I think mine are; I don't think yours are; you think yours are; and you don't think mine are.

But what does this have to do with you and KellyJay and SecondSon insisting that your beliefs, rooted in your faith and your conjecture about unknowable, unprovable supernatural matters, are "objective truths".

It's nonsense to declare one's subjective opinions to be "objective" simply because they MIGHT POSSIBLY be true.

How do you differentiate between ‘true’ and ‘objectively true’? Truth by definition is objective.

@dj2becker said
How do you differentiate between ‘true’ and ‘objectively true’?

Already explained ad nauseam, in the past, over and over again, every time this topic came up, and now again on this thread, Go back and read my posts.

@dj2becker said
Truth by definition is objective.

Your "truth" claims about "everlasting life" are not "objective".

@dj2becker said
So now you suddenly agree that it is possible for a subjective opinion to be true? Fascinating.

Over the last ten or more years I must have stated ~ 40 or 50 times ~ that I believe it is possible that there was a creator being and that the universe and human consciousness were the strongest evidence that theists [of all stripes] have. There is nothing "sudden" about me believing this.