Truth- Absolute or Relative?

@fmf said
I don't deny the existence of a God or Gods. I lack belief in a God or Gods.

So what you're saying is, is that if you knew God existed, then that would mean God's existence was an objective truth, but then you'd have the option of believing in God based on your subjective response it seems.

@secondson said
Your error is that you file everything that is as a subjective opinion, when in fact what is truth exists independent of subjective opinion, even if a subjective response appropriate.

You need to read my posts on this thread if your desire to converse with me on this issue is sincere.

@secondson said
So what you're saying is, is that if you knew God existed, then that would mean God's existence was an objective truth, but then you'd have the option of believing in God based on your subjective response it seems.

If I believed a god or gods exist - "know" is a rhetorical-viagra word in these circumstances- my personal "faith" would be rooted in subjectivity but I would act upon my beliefs as if they were objective, as would be natural if my faith were strong and sincere.

@fmf said
I don't deny the existence of a God or Gods. I lack belief in a God or Gods.

Both your personal opinions and my personal opinions about supernatural things - including your God figure - are subjective and not objective.

Opinions- that's the operative word here. Of course they're subjective!

But opinions are not relative to the objective existence of immutable truth.

That is your error.

@fmf said
If I believed a god or gods exist - "know" is a rhetorical-viagra word in these circumstances- my personal "faith" would be rooted in subjectivity but I would act upon my beliefs as if they were objective, as would be natural if my faith were strong and sincere.

This all applies to you too.

@secondson said
Opinions- that's the operative word here. Of course they're subjective!

But opinions are not relative to the objective existence of immutable truth.

That is your error.

I am not making an "error".

Your religious faith comprises a set of very strong interconnected opinions about reality and about the truth regarding supernatural and divine things.

@secondson said
But opinions are not relative to the objective existence of immutable truth.

You are entitled to your opinions about what is and isn't the "immutable truth".

@fmf said
You need to read my posts on this thread if your desire to converse with me on this issue is sincere.

If you desire to converse sincerely you're going to have to acknowledge the possibility of the existence of objective immutable truth.

Otherwise your mind is closed and confined to only the expression of subjective opinions in an endless stream of redundant discussions.

@fmf said
This all applies to you too.

You can "think" you "know", but real knowledge is based in fact, not theory, not conjecture.

True knowledge is based on the immutable. Everything else is subjective opinion.

@secondson said
If you desire to converse sincerely you're going to have to acknowledge the possibility of the existence of objective immutable truth.

Otherwise your mind is closed and confined to only the expression of subjective opinions in an endless stream of redundant discussions.

Just go and read what I have posted.

You are perfectly entitled to make your subjective assertions about what you call "the existence of objective immutable truth" in the field of unknowable and unprovable and highly personal things - including matters of religious faith.

And you are perfectly entitled to be very, very, very certain about what you believe and to attach all manner of adjectives to your notions of "the truth" as a demonstration of your certainty.

If you are interested in what my stance is in it and wish to converse, you should read what I have posted.

@secondson said
True knowledge is based on the immutable. Everything else is subjective opinion.

Everything you say about your belief in things like "divine law" and "everlasting life" and "sin" etc. is subjective opinion.

@secondson said
You can "think" you "know", but real knowledge is based in fact, not theory, not conjecture.

Your beliefs regarding supernatural causality are all entirely the result of conjecture and faith.

@fmf said
You haven't read my posts on this thread. I am asserting that what you claim to be "the truth" regarding supernatural causality and "divine" law are rooted in your subjectivity.

On the contrary, what I "know" about "the truth" regarding "supernatural causality" is "rooted" in the objective observation of the words of the revealer of immutable truths.

What is subjective is my response.

@fmf said
Your beliefs regarding supernatural causality are all entirely the result of conjecture and faith.

That's your opinion.