@dj2becker saidThere is no contradiction.
But obviously if you throw logic out the door you don’t have to subject yourself the law of non contradiction.
KellyJay, for instance, believes that everyone is "evil" and "wicked" and that, therefore, everyone "deserves" to be tormented in burning flames for eternity and that everyone remains conscious forever - either "in Heaven" or some such - or conscious of the agony of being burned for eternity "in Hell" or some such. The mere fact that KellyJay believes that all this is true for everyone does not make these beliefs of his "objective".
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@fmf saidObviously if you’re not bounds by the laws of logic and absolute truth you can claim whatever you want and contradict yourself and claim that you’re not contradicting yourself and claim that you are using logic because all truth is relative. In essence you’re just shooting randomly and calling everything you hit the target. You can shift the goal posts whenever you wish. You can even claim that you aren’t. You can even claim that two contradictory statement are both true. Everything is possible within a framework of relative truth.
My opinions about supernatural things, and my opinions about other people's beliefs regarding supernatural things, are all subjective. There is no contradiction.
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@dj2becker saidThere is no contradiction in what I am saying. Meanwhile, there is there no "absolute truths" you can tell me about supernatural things that have resulted from your speculations and religious doctrines.
Obviously if you’re not bounds by the laws of logic and absolute truth you can claim whatever you want and contradict yourself and claim that you’re not contradicting yourself and claim that you are using logic because all truth is relative.
@dj2becker saidYou are entitled to claim whatever "truth" you want about supernatural things. No one is stopping you.
You can even claim that two contradictory statement are both true. Everything is possible within a framework of relative truth.
@dj2becker saidNo, I am not. All I am saying is that all anyone can do is speculate about unknowable and unprovable supernatural things ~ which are immune to the kind of empirical scrutiny that creates objectivity ~ and the results of this speculation are subjective beliefs. I am not "shooting randomly" in any shape or form.
In essence you’re just shooting randomly and calling everything you hit the target.
@dj2becker saidIt does not matter how many times you refer to your religious/superstitious beliefs as "absolute truth" or claim that you are "bound" by "absolute truth", it does not make any of your beliefs "objective".
Obviously if you’re not bounds by the laws of logic and absolute truth ...
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@fmf saidYour argument self destructs if you’re just speculating that it’s unprovable and unknowable. You can’t know that to be true, so your argument is moot.
No, I am not. All I am saying is that all anyone can do is speculate about unknowable and unprovable supernatural things ~ which are immune to the kind of empirical scrutiny that creates objectivity ~ and the results of this speculation are subjective beliefs. I am not "shooting randomly" in any shape or form.
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@fmf saidIf what you’re saying cannot be shown to be objectively true why should anyone even bother listening to you if everything is just just a meaningless cacophony of subjective ‘farts in the wind’?
It does not matter how many times you refer to your religious/superstitious beliefs as "absolute truth" or claim that you are "bound" by "absolute truth", it does not make any of your beliefs "objective".
@dj2becker saidPeople can make what they want of my personal opinions about supernatural matters, just as people can make what they want of your personal opinions about them too.
If what you’re saying cannot be shown to be objectively true why should anyone even bother listening to you if everything is just just a meaningless cacophony of subjective ‘farts in the wind’?
@dj2becker saidSupernatural matters are the subject of both your speculation and mine. Neither of us is able to generate objective opinions about them.
Your argument self destructs if you’re just speculating that it’s unprovable and unknowable. You can’t know that to be true, so your argument is moot.
@dj2becker saidMaybe for the same reason as I am listening to you.
If what you’re saying cannot be shown to be objectively true why should anyone even bother listening to you
@dj2becker saidI don't think this discussion has been pointless because I think I have laid out my stance pretty well and, presumably, you think you have done the same with your stance.
If none of what we are saying can be objectively true, it doesn’t matter what anyone believes. It’s all pointless having a discussion then.