Truth- Absolute or Relative?

@dj2becker said
What you are implying is that it’s impossible to have any real certainty about spiritual matters which is self defeating because that means you can’t have any real certainty about other people not having real certainty about spiritual matters.

We can only speculate about the supernatural basis for spiritual matters. That's all you and I and KellyJay can do. You are entltled to be as certain as you want about your beliefs.

@dj2becker said
What you are implying is that it’s impossible to have any real certainty about spiritual matters which is self defeating because that means you can’t have any real certainty about other people not having real certainty about spiritual matters.

Feel as much certainty about supernatural matters as you want. Just go for it.

@fmf said
We can only speculate about the supernatural basis for spiritual matters. That's all you and I and KellyJay can do. You are entltled to be as certain as you want about your beliefs.

How can you have any certainty within a framework of relative truth? If you assume there is no absolute truth regarding supernatural things then there is no certainty. Subjective opinions provide no certainty at all. If you disagree feel free to demonstrate how your subjective opinions provide you with certainty.

@dj2becker said
How can you have any certainty within a framework of relative truth? If you assume there is no absolute truth regarding supernatural things then there is no certainty. Subjective opinions provide no certainty at all. If you disagree feel free to demonstrate how your subjective opinions provide you with certainty.

Your reasons for believing that your personal opinions regarding supernatural things are "absolute truth" do not affect me.

The reasons for your certainty that your personal opinions regarding supernatural things are true are a matter for you.

I have been talking - to you - about the reasons why I don't believe the same things as you for 3-4 years. You seem to be asking to repeat myself. I am not going to.

The degree to which I am certain about what I believe does not affect you.

Your request for for me to talk about the degree to which I am certain about what I believe does not affect me.

@dj2becker said
Subjective opinions provide no certainty at all.

And yet your subjective opinions about supernatural things seem to make you feel very certain about the truth of your beliefs regarding those things.

@dj2becker said
feel free to demonstrate how your subjective opinions provide you with certainty.

I don't need to "demonstrate" anything to you. I have simply shared my personal perspective with you, just as you have shared yours. I am not asking you to "demonstrate" anything to me.

@fmf said
We can only speculate about the supernatural basis for spiritual matters. That's all you and I and KellyJay can do. You are entltled to be as certain as you want about your beliefs.

On what basis do you believe that Jesus is lying when he says you shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free? If what you are saying is true it means no one can KNOW the truth about spiritual matters.

@dj2becker said
On what basis do you believe that Jesus is lying when he says you shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free? If what you are saying is true it means no one can KNOW the truth about spiritual matters.

I have discussed many times why I don't subscribe to the things that Christians believe regarding Jesus. You appear to be asking me to repeat myself. I am not going to do it. My stance hasn't changed.

@dj2becker said
If what you are saying is true it means no one can KNOW the truth about spiritual matters.

We can only speculate and express personal opinions about supernatural phenomena and supernatural beings that underpin religious and spiritual matters.

@fmf said
We can only speculate and express personal opinions about supernatural phenomena and supernatural beings that underpin religious and spiritual matters.

If truth really is relative you should replace ‘we’ with ‘I’.

@dj2becker said
If truth really is relative you should replace ‘we’ with ‘I’.

I believe we can only speculate about supernatural things, so "we" is the right word for me to use when describing my perspective.

@fmf said
I believe we can only speculate about supernatural things, so "we" is the right word for me to use when describing my perspective.

As soon as you say truth applies to all of us then it is no longer relative. You can’t have it both ways.

@dj2becker said
As soon as you say truth applies to all of us then it is no longer relative. You can’t have it both ways.

My perspective is subjective. If you believe that your perspective is "objective" simply because you have declared your beliefs to be within a "framework of absolute truth", then so what? I am not having it "both ways"; I simply believe that your [and my] speculation about supernatural things does not generate "objectivity".

@fmf said
My perspective is subjective. If you believe that your perspective is "objective" simply because you have declared your beliefs to be within a "framework of absolute truth", then so what? I am not having it "both ways"; I simply believe that your [and my] speculation about supernatural things does not generate "objectivity".

Having a subjective perspective doesn’t mean you are unable to recognize objective truth. Or do you believe it does?

@dj2becker said
Having a subjective perspective doesn’t mean you are unable to recognize objective truth. Or do you believe it does?

What I believe is that you cannot base any "objective" beliefs or declare anything to be "absolute" truth based on your speculation about supernatural things which are immune to empirical scrutiny in the way that things like gravity are.

Just because you say your beliefs in supernatural phenomena and beings are "objective" does not affect me and it does not affect the speculative and faith-based nature of what you believe.