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Truth is paramount?

Truth is paramount?

Spirituality

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@fmf said
We can but speculate about supernatural things and the will of a divine lawgiver, if there is one.

If someone sincerely believes they will get a free passage into "Heaven" for blowing up innocent people and they state that they believe this is true, they are not telling a "lie".
Would you agree they are believing an untruth? Or do you think it's impossible to know whether or not their belief rings true or not?

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@dj2becker said
I am using the word 'lie' as an antonym to the word 'truth'. I can use the word 'untruth' instead if you prefer.
A "lie" is an untrue statement intended to deceive.

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@dj2becker said
Would you agree they are believing an untruth? Or do you think it's impossible to know whether or not their belief rings true or not?
I think I have answered these two questions. What I believe does not affect whether they are lying or not. And when I said "We can but speculate about supernatural things and the will of a divine lawgiver, if there is one", that's exactly what I think.

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@fmf said
A "lie" is an untrue statement intended to deceive.
According to the dictionary the word 'lie' can also be used to mean 'an inaccurate or false statement'. That is the context in which I was using the word. Check out the 3rd use of the word here: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lie

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@dj2becker said
I am using the word 'lie' as an antonym to the word 'truth'. I can use the word 'untruth' instead if you prefer.
I suggest you refrain from using the word "lie" incorrectly.

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@dj2becker said
According to the dictionary the word 'lie' can also be used to mean 'an inaccurate or false statement'. That is the context in which I was using the word. Check out the 3rd use of the word here: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lie
We had this discussion before. You tried to play with dictionary definitions before. I told you what I think "lie" means in the context of what we are talking about before. My stance hasn't changed. It's the same as before.

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@fmf said
We had this discussion before. You tried to play with dictionary definitions before. I told you what I think "lie" means in the context for what we are talking about before. My stance hasn't changed. It's the same as before.
Ok let's just ignore what the dictionary says and use your opinion as the final absolute on the only correct use of the word 'lie'.

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@fmf said
I suggest you refrain from using the word "lie" incorrectly.
Yes I know you think that only your opinion is correct and the dictionary is wrong. So be it.

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@dj2becker said
In the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe a lie.
What @dj2becker said, updated:
In the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe inaccurate or false statements.

To which I still say: We can but speculate about supernatural things and the will of a divine lawgiver, if there is one. You and I are entitled to our subjective opinions.

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@dj2becker said
Ok let's just ignore what the dictionary says and use your opinion as the final absolute on the only correct use of the word 'lie'.
I don't think the word "lie" means anything much if you dilute it by saying it means simply "untruth" making it shorn of the intentionality meaning. What verb and noun would you use that precisely means 'deliberately saying something that one believes is untrue in order to deceive'?

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@fmf said
I don't think the word "lie" means anything much if you dilute it by saying it means simply "untruth" making it shorn of the intentionality meaning. What verb and noun would you use that precisely means 'deliberately saying something that one believes is untrue in order to deceive'?
Let's say person A deceives person B with a lie. Are you saying it's impossible to say person B believed a lie which person A told them even if person B honestly thought what person A was saying was true?

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@dj2becker said
Let's say person A deceives person B with a lie. Are you saying it's impossible to say person B believed a lie which person A told them even if person B honestly thought what person A was saying was true?
So 'A' says something they believe is untrue in order to deceive 'B'... then what? Be clear.

It sounds like you are simply asking me the same question again despite the fact that I have already answered it. Try again.

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@dj2becker said
In the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe a lie. In this case truth is paramount and outweighs the resonance of their belief.
The OP said: More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.

In the case of the suicide bomber, if their belief provides potential believers with a sense of hope, direction and purpose, then that is the resonance in question. It is not about whether or not it resonates with you and whatever you believe is "a lie" and "the truth".

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BigDoggProblem, has my post above understood you correctly?

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@fmf said
So 'A' says something they believe is untrue in order to deceive 'B'... then what? Be clear.

It sounds like you are simply asking me the same question again despite the fact that I have already answered it. Try again.
A says something they believe is untrue in order to deceive B. B buys it hence B believes a lie even though B has no intention to deceive per se.