Truth is paramount?

@fmf said
What @dj2becker said, updated:
In the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe inaccurate or false statements.

To which I still say: We can but speculate about supernatural things and the will of a divine lawgiver, if there is one. You and I are entitled to our subjective opinions.

But you have to draw a line somewhere. If there were no divine lawgiver why draw a line at all?

@dj2becker said
A says something they believe is untrue in order to deceive B. B buys it hence B believes a lie even though B has no intention to deceive per se.

My post on page 1 responding to your "believing a lie" thing covers this. Not sure why you are going over the same thing repeatedly. We have no way of knowing how sincere and earnest or how dishonest the stories that set Islam in motion were. There are Muslims who believe that the Christian portrayal of Jesus is a "lie". I think it's a rather silly and disrespectful way for them to characterize the beliefs of Christians.

@dj2becker said
But you have to draw a line somewhere. If there were no divine lawgiver why draw a line at all?

"Draw the line" ~ having speculated to your heart's content ~ as you see fit. It's all subjective.

@rookie54 said
@BigDoggProblem

what the heck are you doing?
this isn't the logic forum dammit

Sorry...it's a personal failing. 🙂

-Removed-

At least you are thinking for yourself, rather than following a mold. That ought to be encouraged, not sneered at.

@indonesia-phil said
Isn't this something to do with conditioning? So many of us, myself included, are raised from a pre - conscious age to 'believe' in something before we have any chance to make our own choices or form our own beliefs, which I think of as a kind of intellectual or spiritual child abuse. 'You are a Christian whether you like it or not.' Of course at the time I was Christe ...[text shortened]... t people who aren't happy in their own spiritual skin do have a particular issue to try to overcome.

Yes, there is also Conformity. I thought about adding that motivation to the OP, but I don't think too many of those type come to a Spirituality forum, at least not the passive ones.

@ponderable said
@BigDoggProblem
We do have a Problem: The Question of Pontius Pilatus has not been asnwered yet: "what is truth". my philosophical take is that as humans we are just too limited to see the "truth" what we can perceive and Interpret is "reality". And we are at Plato's parable of the cave...

IMO that question is often unanswerable (whether folds realize it, or not). This is one reason that "truth" as a primary motivator can be impractical.

@dj2becker said
In the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe a lie. In this case truth is paramount and outweighs the resonance of their belief.

Actually, you just helped prove my point. Resonance outweighed truth, in terms of what MOTIVATED them.

@fmf said
BigDoggProblem, has my post above understood you correctly?

Yes.

@bigdoggproblem said
Actually, you just helped prove my point. Resonance outweighed truth, in terms of what MOTIVATED them.

Yes, if truth is not undergirded by love, it makes the possessor of that truth obnoxious and the truth repulsive.
-Ravi Zacharias

@dj2becker said
Yes, if truth is not undergirded by love, it makes the possessor of that truth obnoxious and the truth repulsive.
-Ravi Zacharias

That's another topic. I'd like to stay focused on this one.

@bigdoggproblem said
Yes, there is also Conformity. I thought about adding that motivation to the OP, but I don't think too many of those type come to a Spirituality forum, at least not the passive ones.

Conformity stems from a person's sense of belonging ~ to a culture or a community or even a family ~ so I think it would be interwoven with resonance.

@fmf said
Conformity stems from a person's sense of belonging ~ to a culture or a community or even a family ~ so I think it would be interwoven with resonance.

I have pictured in my head those who do not think the subject is very important - and so find it easier to just go along with what other people are doing.

But there definitely can be a powerful sense of unity within a group of believers.

Maybe this category needs to be sub-divided a bit more. Perhaps "active conformity" in which the conformity is embraced, and "passive conformity", in which the conformity is borne more out of indifference or apathy.