Spirituality
27 Apr 20
27 Apr 20
This is the Spirituality forum, where truth is paramount.
-SecondSon
More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.
If "truth" is really the primary motivation, then there ought to be a bunch of believers that are not crazy about what they believe in, but think they're simply stuck with things as they are. Where are these people?
@bigdoggproblem saidHa! A thought-provoking proposal and an excellent question. I can't remember this ~ "resonance" and 'discontent with what one believes' ~ being addressed in a previous thread, at least not with the succinct clarity of this OP. A new idea to get to grips with. Takes some doing seeing as this is this forum's 12,485th thread!This is the Spirituality forum, where truth is paramount.
-SecondSon
More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.
If "truth" is really the primary motivation, then there ought to b ...[text shortened]... hat they believe in, but think they're simply stuck with things as they are. Where are these people?
27 Apr 20
Isn't this something to do with conditioning? So many of us, myself included, are raised from a pre - conscious age to 'believe' in something before we have any chance to make our own choices or form our own beliefs, which I think of as a kind of intellectual or spiritual child abuse. 'You are a Christian whether you like it or not.' Of course at the time I was Christened things were different, scientific knowledge and understanding were not so well advanced, and the world was not such an accessible place, and few people were exposed to alternative religions and beliefs, so my parents' generation can't really be 'blamed'. Nevertheless some of us are less able to break the shackles of our inherited 'faith' than others. There's nothing wrong with being a Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Atheist, if we come to these things by our own volition, but people who aren't happy in their own spiritual skin do have a particular issue to try to overcome.
27 Apr 20
@bigdoggproblem saidFor there to be resonance and inspiration, there needs to be credibility on a personal, internal level, although I think a strong feeling that something is "truth" can perhaps be synthesized by external things like community spirit, common purpose or solidarity with/dependency on other believers.
More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.
27 Apr 20
@fmf saidIf enough people around us are saying 'this is the truth' we naturally start to believe it, particularly if the indoctrination starts young, and we are likely to be considered an outcast or a bit 'different' if we don't fall into line, its' the group instinct thing. Standing in the magnificence of St Paul's Cathedral or the Blue Mosque can be a spiritual experience anyway, regardless of whether you believe in the reasons that such places were built. No religion stands up to close, objective intellectual scrutiny, all we have is belief, which is fine as long as we accept that it isn't the only belief, and that other peoples' beliefs (or lack thereof) have as much validity as our own.
For there to be resonance and inspiration, there needs to be credibility on a personal, internal level, although I think a strong feeling that something is "truth" can perhaps be synthesized by external things like community spirit, common purpose or solidarity with/dependency on other believers.
27 Apr 20
@BigDoggProblem
We do have a Problem: The Question of Pontius Pilatus has not been asnwered yet: "what is truth". my philosophical take is that as humans we are just too limited to see the "truth" what we can perceive and Interpret is "reality". And we are at Plato's parable of the cave...
28 Apr 20
@bigdoggproblem saidWith all due respect to SecondSon (whoever that is) I would say Fact is paramount.This is the Spirituality forum, where truth is paramount.
-SecondSon
More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.
If "truth" is really the primary motivation, then there ought to b ...[text shortened]... hat they believe in, but think they're simply stuck with things as they are. Where are these people?
As Indiana Jones once said: "If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall" 😏
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
@bigdoggproblem saidIn the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe a lie. In this case truth is paramount and outweighs the resonance of their belief.This is the Spirituality forum, where truth is paramount.
-SecondSon
More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.
If "truth" is really the primary motivation, then there ought to b ...[text shortened]... hat they believe in, but think they're simply stuck with things as they are. Where are these people?
28 Apr 20
@dj2becker saidI can see how their actions can be seen as a mistake ~ and an evil and psychopathic one, at that ~ but to "lie" means to say or write something that is untrue in order to deceive someone.
In the case of a suicide bomber, their belief provides them with a sense of hope, direction and purpose yet it is not based on truth. They believe a lie. In this case truth is paramount and outweighs the resonance of their belief.
I can imagine scenarios where an atheist poses as a Muslim and says something they believe is untrue to another person in order to persuade them to carry out a bombing for political and/or criminal reasons.
However, otherwise, if those involved in the suicide attack sincerely believe they are doing their God figure's will then where is the "lie"?
Unless, of course, your definition of "lie" is a stated religious belief or assertion about reality that you personally disagree with.
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
28 Apr 20
@fmf saidAre you implying that as long as people are sincere in their beliefs their beliefs cannot be regarded as a lie?
I can see how their actions can be seen as a mistake ~ and an evil and psychopathic one, at that ~ but to "lie" means to say or write something that is untrue in order to deceive someone.
I can imagine scenarios where an atheist poses as a Muslim and says something they believe is untrue to another person in order to persuade them to carry out a bombing for political and/or c ...[text shortened]... of "lie" is a stated religious belief or assertion about reality that you personally disagree with.
If someone sincerely believes they will get a free passage into Heaven for blowing up innocent people they are believing a lie are they not?
28 Apr 20
@dj2becker saidA lie is deliberately saying something that one believes is untrue in order to deceive.
Are you implying that as long as people are sincere in their beliefs their beliefs cannot be regarded as a lie?
28 Apr 20
@dj2becker saidWe can but speculate about supernatural things and the will of a divine lawgiver, if there is one.
If someone sincerely believes they will get a free passage into Heaven for blowing up innocent people they are believing a lie are they not?
If someone sincerely believes they will get a free passage into "Heaven" for blowing up innocent people and they state that they believe this is true, they are not telling a "lie".