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@bigdoggproblem said"If "truth" is really the primary motivation, then there ought to be a bunch of believers that are not crazy about what they believe in, but think they're simply stuck with things as they are."This is the Spirituality forum, where truth is paramount.
-SecondSon
More important, I think, is resonance - a belief, or set of beliefs, that strike a chord inside the potential believer, and inspiration - beliefs that provide a sense of hope, direction, and purpose.
If "truth" is really the primary motivation, then there ought to b ...[text shortened]... hat they believe in, but think they're simply stuck with things as they are. Where are these people?
Simple logic. Jesus said "I am the truth"(in counter distinction to all others) and "the truth shall make you free".
How then is it, if one is made free by the truth, that it is said that the one set free ought not be crazy?
And why, after one is made free, would one resonate being "stuck with things as they are" when "they shall mount up with wings as eagles"?
Truth is paramount!
@secondson saidYou should believe whatever you believe and feel free to base your actions and perspectives upon it. The problem with your use of the word "truth" in this context - i.e. your speculation and faith regarding supernatural things - is that it is entirely subjective.
Truth is paramount!
Thefore, what is "paramount" to you in this regard, quite simply, may not be "paramount" to others if they are unpersuaded by your personal opinions and assertions about "the truth".
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@secondson saidThey absolutely would not. Those [resonance vs. feeling "stuck with the truth"] were opposing possibilities.
And why, after one is made free, would one resonate being "stuck with things as they are" when "they shall mount up with wings as eagles"?
You should believe whatever you believe and feel free to base your actions and perspectives upon it.
That goes without saying, as it is a fundamental and universal perspective applicable to all. You, I, we, us, them and they should "feel free" to live and have our being based on each individual's personal beliefs as long as those beliefs don't infringe upon the free exercise of the will of others.
The problem with your use of the word "truth" in this context - i.e. your speculation and faith regarding supernatural things - is that it is entirely subjective.
You are free to believe that "truth" is subjective, and that there is no immutable "truth" regarding "supernatural things". I see no "problem" with the use of the term truth in this context. This "context" isn't about someone's favorite color. That would be subjective. But with regards to the context of the discussion about the supernatural there are "things" that are true, immutably, and things not. You can relegate it to my opinion that what I believe is immutable truth is subjective, but that's just your subjective opinion, and you're welcome to it.
Therefore, what is "paramount" to you in this regard, quite simply, may not be "paramount" to others if they are unpersuaded by your personal opinions and assertions about "the truth".
Think about what you're saying there. Why would I think my "personal opinions" should persuade anyone?
It's not personal opinion that makes truth paramount. The truth that is "paramount" is the "truth" that is pre-existent and immutable.
And if you should deny that such "truth" exists objectively you will need to provide an immutable truth to contradict that, otherwise it's only on your subjective opinion with which you can base that assertion.
@secondson saidAs I explained, your assertions about the "truth" of supernatural things are subjective. So are mine. So whatever it is, in your personal opinion, that's "paramount", is not going to be "paramount" for everyone.
@FMFYou should believe whatever you believe and feel free to base your actions and perspectives upon it.
That goes without saying, as it is a fundamental and universal perspective applicable to all. You, I, we, us, them and they should "feel free" to live and have our being based on each individual's personal beliefs as long as those beliefs don't infr ...[text shortened]... tradict that, otherwise it's only on your subjective opinion with which you can base that assertion.
@secondson saidWe can but speculate.
You are free to believe that "truth" is subjective, and that there is no immutable "truth" regarding "supernatural things".
@secondson saidBoth your assertions and my assertions about these supernatural matters are subjective. Everybody's speculations about supernatural things result in assertions about "the truth" that are subjective. What you have is religious faith. And you are free to act upon that faith as if it is made up of objective truths. You are free to be as certain as you want about the claims that comprise your faith.
And if you should deny that such "truth" exists objectively you will need to provide an immutable truth to contradict that, otherwise it's only on your subjective opinion with which you can base that assertion.
@secondson saidAlong side your personal opinion about what is "the truth" in these matters, there are billions of other personal opionions. Along side you making assertions about "the truth" and what is "paramount", there are billions of others making assertions about "the truth" and what is "paramount" to them.
It's not personal opinion that makes truth paramount. The truth that is "paramount" is the "truth" that is pre-existent and immutable.
@fmf saidThere's a contradiction in your assertion that because personal opinion is the root of belief that therefore it explains away "paramount truth"(immutable truth) that can be known objectively, and universally applicable to all, and then state unequivocally that it isn't "going to be paramount for everyone".
As I explained, your assertions about the "truth" of supernatural things are subjective. So are mine. So whatever it is, in your personal opinion, that's "paramount", is not going to be "paramount" for everyone.
Can't have it both ways. Immutable truth either is or isn't. Either way it's immutably true regardless of subjective personal opinion.
@fmf saidOur internal emotional responses to exterior stimuli are subjective. Belief is formed within by the knowledge of immutable truth as it is observed objectively by the intellect.
Both your assertions and my assertions about these supernatural matters are subjective.
A "supernatural thing" is either true or false. Its veracity has its effect on the intellect objectively, and can affect the emotions subjectively.
@fmf saidTrue, but knowing that won't change my belief in, and knowledge of, the immutable truth.
Along side your personal opinion about what is "the truth" in these matters, there are billions of other personal opionions. Along side you making assertions about "the truth" and what is "paramount", there are billions of others making assertions about "the truth" and what is "paramount" to them.